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"if you can't reliably identify all the intervals within an octave and identify major, minor, diminished and augmented triads, as well as the basic 4-note chords (major 7, minor 7, dominant 7, minor-7-flat-5) by ear..."

I feel this is phrased in a very daunting way. Understanding how the different notes sounds is certainly a building block to soloing/improvisation, but you do NOT need a jazz-pro ear to do that. I certainly can't always recognize 4 note chord types, but while playing I can tell when a flat 3rd would sound tasty in lieu of a major 3rd.

A great exercise I used is playing piano in C major and getting used to using the black keys, which will all be sharp or flat notes in that key. Get used to how a flat 3rd sounds compared to a major, the same with flat 7ths, sharp 5ths, etc...learn how to add those notes in ways that work.

I improved a LOT from a VERY short course by Youtuber Jeff Schneider that teaches this in a structured manner. It's 25 short & tasty blues licks in C major, so every time something 'tasty' is played, it's either a flat/sharp note and/or a fun rhythm, like a triplet. It made so many things click for my lead playing.

I'm in no way affiliated with Jeff but I can't recommend the course enough, best 15$ I've probably ever spent. It's also now been transcribed to all keys, but I think C is probably all you need. https://jeffschneidermusic.com/store/tastiest-blues-licks

"Jazz Theory" is a good book, but I think the average person wanting to "learn music theory" would find the excellent "Jazz Harmony Book" by the same publisher much more accessible, certainly not easy, but by no means the slog/reference-style-book that "Jazz Theory" is. Link is here: https://www.shermusic.com/1883217792.php

I've tried doing ear training a couple of times in my life and it has been always absolutely frustrating. All methods I've tried just ask repeatedly which interval/chord/note it is you are listening without actually having any sort of method on how to develop the skill on how to listen.

I'm trying again now with a new method which consists in singing the notes. In a couple of days I've got better results than weeks of Ear Master or other similar software. My hypothesis is that it works because when trying to imitate a pitch with your voices you a) have to listen closely to the pitch and b) you internalize some pitch "muscle memory".

Is there any book/software you are using for the new "singing the notes" method?

I play two notes at the same time and try to sing both notes. At first I started with larger intervals and now I can hear and sing major seconds. Minor seconds are still hard.

I also play one note and try to sing an interval above and below. So for example I play G and try to sing a major third above and a major third below. I then play those notes and check how close I was. I repeat a couple of times until I get it right. I do that for different notes and with different intervals.

I then play a triad and try to hear and sing the three notes. At first I could only do it for the top note, but then I was able to hear the root note, and finally after a couple of days I was able to hear and sing the middle note.

> #1 thing you can do to help your music theory understanding is to train your ear

I live down the road from a custom guitar builder Patrick Cummings, he also offers private lessons, we were talking about learning guitar, and he was telling me the exact same thing. He said something like, "If you can't hear the music, you will never understand the music." He apparently focuses the first few weeks of lessons on ear training.

Just chiming in to say I agree with ear-training!

I've played/learned piano for ~25 years and I've decided that not taking the time to actually sit down and level up my ear training has held me back quite a bit in some ways:

- I can't improvise to save my life

- I can't accompany a melody by ear

- I really struggle to transcribe music

- Sightreading is hard because I don't have a good handle on being able to anticipate harmony

And yet I've had friends who were far less able than me in terms of raw technique be able to play pretty much any pop song on request just from memory - something I've always envied!

Learning a handful of scales got me a long way toward sounding like I was good guitar/music. Then the progressions on top of that allowed me to make songs that sounded like songs.

But just knowing a scale is worthless unless you know the key a song is in, so I can not play with others really.

Mark Levine's book is a great resource and the way he presents much of the theory behind jazz improvisation and actually ties it to practice is very useful.

Regarding ear training - I think it's worth mentioning that learning to identify intervals in isolation won't have major returns on investment unless you're main goal is to transcribe by ear 20th century music that is divorced from "common practice" harmonic approaches.

Instead, I'd recommend taking an approach of build up aural comprehension of harmonic idioms from whatever style of music you're interested in learning about - so for classical music, recognizing the difference between tonic and dominant and when we've moved from one to the other is more valuable (and easier) than knowing whether the soprano voice in an chord moved a third or a second.

Did you go back to engineering or stick with music?

Similarly, I quit my IT job a few years ago to go to music school. I also found that book and ear training very useful, especially if you're interested in improvisation. One thing I'd add (for improvisation) is to not only be able to identify, but to sing those intervals, triads, and 7th chords as well (ascending, descending, all inversions), and also do the same thing with scales/modes. If you can sing them, you know you have the sound internalized.

Thank you for introducing me to EarMaster :) I never knew such a software existed.

I've been looking for a good music theory book for quite some time now, never expected it to find on hacker news though. Thanks a lot, will definitely check that book out.