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Comment by coldtea | Hacker News Reader

Irish are an ethnicity, not a race. They're the same race as I am (and probably the grandparent). And they make the same kind of jokes themselves all the time, like my people do the same kind of stereotype jokes for our own kind.

It's only "racism" in the provincial US preoccupation that "everything said that touches on a population/ethnicity/race is racism". Not in the "X are inferior/KKK/etc" sense, which is what we should be concerned with.

I, for one, don't appreciate taking lessons about how a joke is racist from people from a country that had slavery until the 19th century, segregation since the 1970s, and widespread systemic/popular/law enforcement racism problems today. As if their experience is the universal standard that should be applied to the global population here on the internet. That's, if not racist, surely imposing upon others...

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>Irish are an ethnicity, not a race.

Racism is often considered antagonism based on race or ethnicity. The terms are very closely linked, though it may have been better for me to say "ethnicity."

>Not in the "X are inferior/KKK/etc" sense, which is what we should be concerned with

So what grudges do you think the Irish held leading to this stereotype?

I don't get the rest of your argument. It seems to be "my country doesn't have a problem with racism so racist comments are fine."

>I don't get the rest of your argument. It seems to be "my country doesn't have a problem with racism so racist comments are fine."

It's more "A culture that has historically had heavy racism problems should not export their overcompensating hysteria that everything touching on ethnicity/race is racism and consider its own preoccupations universally applicable".

>So what grudges do you think the Irish held leading to this stereotype?

Why not ask the Irish themselves?

https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/cahirodoherty/why-irish...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/nurturing-a-grudge-1.315764

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/50-year-itch-epic-grudge...

Or on a funny note:

https://lovin.ie/news/feature/18-petty-things-that-irish-peo...

My god, all those links refer to Irish Americans. If anything, it shows that Americans hold grudges throughout generations. It's quite telling that an American conflates Irish-Americanism with being 'Irish'. The hyphen is there for a reason.

>It's more...

I'm curious where you're from that you think doesn't have a similar history, but it still boils down to "if you don't have a racism problem it's not actually racist." I don't get that logic, you can argue it's not harmful but it's still racism.

>Why not ask the Irish themselves?

I find it strange that all the Irish you are asking are speaking English, but the Irish Times hits why this is offensive.

>Well, Brian, the record so far is a whopping 800 years: this being the period, rounded down to the nearest century, for which we claim to have been oppressed by the English.

Everything else listed is fairly standard, and you could make similar articles for any ethnicity.

>I'm curious where you're from that you think doesn't have a similar history, but it still boils down to "if you don't have a racism problem it's not actually racist." I don't get that logic

Note that I never said "If a place doesn't have a racism problem then them doing racist acts is OK / it's not racist".

My argument is "Places with heavy racist history tend to look at all kind of non-racist acts as racist, either from guilt or to overcompensate, and then try to force their hyper-sensitivity on others".

Instead of getting sensitive about stereotypes like "Irish can hold a grudge", "the Italians like pasta", "Scots are tightwads", "Germans have no humor", "Greeks are fiscally irresponsible", "Asians do everything better" or whatever as "racism", better act on actual racism, like systemic racism, redlining, over-representation of blacks in what's the biggest prison population in the world, racist cop shootings, college admissions, under-funded districts, WASP domination, etc.

>My argument is "Places with heavy racist history tend to look at all kind of non-racist acts as racist, either from guilt or to overcompensate, and then try to force their hyper-sensitivity on others".

Even if this is true, that was a racist statement for the reasons I originally outlined. That doesn't change if Irish say it, and it is of the "x are inferior sense" you mention. That's what has me confused,

>Instead of... act on...

So I should better prioritise the racism I address in my country, ignoring smaller examples until I can fix major ones? I tend to just address the ones I encounter, though I think understanding that past treatment can still cause current problems we need to address is an important message.

I wasn't sure until this comment, but now I'm 100% convinced you're American.

You could have just asked, but I don't think it's particularly important information.

I don't actually care, I just wanted to point it out to you, so that you understand how strongly it's colouring your views. We all have our biases, and we should all be aware of them.

How strongly is it coloring my views of what somebody else presumably from the same country said?

The fact that you presume him to also be American is another super American trait.

The person talked in depth about things happening in California. I can't be certain they are American, but I have ample reason to presume they are.

Pardon him, Theodotus, he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature. -- George Bernard Shaw

And you hail from some magical fairy land with no history of oppressing others, so it's clearly fine to make light of Irish oppression. Only an American would find that action racist.

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