Hacker News Reader

Comment by btrettel | Hacker News Reader

As a cyclist I'm elevated above most drivers on the road. So I can see many distracted drivers who try to be more subtle about it. Distracted driving is a daily problem, but there's almost no enforcement of it.

I can recall one time where I talked to a driver stopped at a stoplight about how he wasn't paying attention and couldn't stay in his lane. I told him to put down the phone and watch the road. This driver tried to change the subject, acting outraged that before he passed me I left the bike lane for less than 10 seconds to pass another cyclist. I told him that's not illegal but he wasn't having any of it. Apparently I'm just as bad as he is, which makes his distracted driving okay. Except that what I did was legal and perfectly safe, yet what he did was illegal and rather dangerous.

View on HN

On the occasions I've felt I needed to glance at my phone while driving, I've held it up and in front of me so I still had peripheral vision of the road. People using their phone and doing so from their lap or console, not to mention actually interacting with the phone... I can't even....

One time I switched lanes rather abruptly as the person in front of me was erratically speeding up and slowing down. (No, I wasn't tailgating; I think they were drunk or maybe having an argument.) The person in the next lane apparently got pissed that I merged so closely behind him and a few blocks later pulled up alongside me to yell. I apologized. From his perspective it was a dick move; I got it. The look of shock on his face when I apologized was priceless; he almost looked dejected.

People get so self-defensive; it doesn't make any sense. It's like people turn 18 and stop growing up. Their loss, I guess.

Whenever someone cuts me off or wanders into my lane, rather than getting angry I try to remind myself that that's me during an inattentive moment, which we all have regularly. We just don't realize when we have them because, well, we're distracted.

> On the occasions I've felt I needed to glance at my phone while driving, I've held it up and in front of me so I still had peripheral vision of the road. People using their phone and doing so from their lap or console, not to mention actually interacting with the phone... I can't even....

You're right. The lap people are worse because they are trying to hide what they are doing in a way that makes it more dangerous!

> I apologized. From his perspective it was a dick move; I got it. The look of shock on his face when I apologized was priceless; he almost looked dejected.

As a cyclist I talk to a lot of drivers. I'd guess, just based on my intuition, that about 1/3 of drivers will apologize outright for dangerous driving when I talk to them. I'm not surprised this would disappoint some people but I think it's the right response. I myself have tried to get better about pausing to evaluate my situation when I've been accused of doing something bad and apologizing if necessary. It takes practice.

I'm not sure if it really matters that much. Humans are very bad at paying attention to more than one thing. It's the attention that really matters, not so much the vision. Besides, peripheral vision essentially just tracks movements, and traffic is always moving regardless.

I suspect that if there is a difference at all, it will be smaller than you'd expect.

Everyone gets defensive about their culpability on the roads...it's the same in online gaming or work. If you point out what someone's doing wrong, especially if they have no relationship to you, most self-conscious, ego-centric people will react defensively and rudely.

I sometimes ride 100+ miles a week, so me moving out of the Bay Area probably extended my lifespan by a good 5-10 years.

Seriously the drivers in that area are so terrible, with Uber drivers taking it a step higher. For the average cyclist, it’s a matter of when, not if they will get hit.

I'm not keen on the Bay Area anyway but I'll keep that in mind when moving.

Also not surprised about ride share drivers. A few months ago I had one try to attack me with a screwdriver! Helmet cam video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trSB3mK78bs (I believe the guy has been arrested now, not sure though as he might have skipped town.)

(Yes, I've heard that I should not confront drivers, but I think on a whole me doing so has led to greater understanding between cyclists and drivers. In this case the Uber driver nearly hit me head on, probably because they were distracted. If anyone thinks I was rude to the driver in any way, I'm interested in learning why.)

Right now I'm in Austin but don't intend to stay here long term. While people say driving is terrible everywhere, some places are worse. In Texas drunk driving is basically socially acceptable, plus you have people driving huge trucks, often with frivolous "grille guards" that would butcher any pedestrian or cyclist hit by them.

As a pedestrian, I'm often passed at close range, at speed by bicyclists that have their head in their phones. It's difficult to fathom this level of negligence.

I understand the frustration at a cyclist doing this, but are you more bothered by a cyclist doing this or a driver doing this?

You say "it's difficult to fathom this level of negligence", but a driver doing this is significantly more dangerous -- yet current laws don't take this into account.

For example: a ticket for a cyclist running a red light in NYC is greater than a ticket for a driver texting on their phone.

For the same act, of course a car is much more dangerous than a bicycle.

But, I've never been buzzed by a car going 20mph at a distance of under one foot, and certainly not while I'm walking on a sidewalk. I am regularly buzzed by bikes in this manner.

In general, drivers act with the knowledge that if they even tap a pedestrian, they're likely to severely injure or kill them. They might be sloppy or distracted, but they almost never willfully do this.

I encounter bicyclists playing "chicken" with me on sidewalks all the time. There's a cold or smug look on their face as they ride directly toward me--it's clear that I'd better step aside or be struck.

So, regardless of the actual numbers, cyclists seem more dangerous. I don't think accurate statistics are being collected on this sort of thing, and I think we should start.

(P.S. Have you really seen a bicyclist getting a ticket in NYC? Never seen that in my life. Wow!)

> In general, drivers act with the knowledge that if they even tap a pedestrian, they're likely to severely injure or kill them. They might be sloppy or distracted, but they almost never willfully do this.

In my experience as a cyclist and pedestrian, many drivers don't seem to act with the knowledge that if they even tap a pedestrian or cyclist that they'll severely injure or kill them. Many drivers do similar things to what you describe cyclists as doing. Ultimately the percentage of jerks among drivers, cyclists, and pedestrians is about the same.

> (P.S. Have you really seen a bicyclist getting a ticket in NYC? Never seen that in my life. Wow!)

Isn't NYC famous for ticketing cyclists? E.g., for not riding in the bike lane? (Which isn't illegal by the way.) I don't know specifically about the claim previously made but it seems plausible to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzE-IMaegzQ

I live in Austin and as a cyclist I've gone through bike stop sign enforcement twice (getting a ticket neither time). My guess is that the same thing happens regularly in NYC, but you're not paying attention for such things.

Lived in NYC for about four years and never saw a cyclist being ticketed or even stopped. Even that guy that killed a pedestrian in Central Park wasn't ticketed, AFAIK.

Only saw maybe four drivers get tickets, though, and two looked more like some dispute about taxi regulations than actual moving violations.

I will say that NYC bicyclists are far more law-abiding and respectful than my current "bike-friendly" city. (Never thought I'd type those words...)

I feel like a lot of drivers I've encountered (in NYC) are relatively aggressive towards pedestrians & cyclists.

Cyclists shouldn't be on the sidewalk (unless they're kids <8 years old I believe).

As to bicyclists being ticketed... unfortunately, yes. I've been ticketed and a number of friends have been ticketed. There have been a number of anti-cycling initiatives recently (follow @bikesnobnyc to see the level of it, with some snark)

Bicycles are not to be ridden on sidewalks, which are for walking. You should promptly brace yourself and stiff arm said cyclist in the throat in joust. Bicycles are road legal vehicles.

Yes, I'm somewhat amazed by those cyclists. The "best" (i.e., most dangerous) distracted cyclists have no hands on their handlebars at all. Yet they might still be traveling at an appreciable speed. There are jerks in every transportation mode.

A few months ago they made this illegal in Amsterdam. It is dangerous, still everyone does it though.

I do too, especially for maps and changing music.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com