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Comment by caleblloyd | Hacker News Reader

I found that once I owned a home, the utility for a truck doing "weekend warrior" tasks was great. Runs to the dump, transporting furniture, soil/mulch, firewood. Standard towing package for a boat or a rental trailer. Can also fit bikes, kayaks, skis, and camping equipment, no need for expensive roof rack accessories.

We use my wife's crossover for all of the family trips, so it's usually just me in the truck. Before I owned a home I enjoyed driving a nicer sedan but now I would now I prefer the utility of a mid-size truck.

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I drive a Fiat Panda and I do all of those things. I perhaps spend a bit more time fitting stuff in (kayaks/skis have to go on top obviously).

I once managed to fit an entire king size bed inside a fiat punto, but it doesn't make punto a good choice for transporting things. Once you have kids, a dog, these modern mars-rover like baby trolleys, occasional need to transport furniture, etc. it's never enough space. And in Europe minivans cost the same as urban SUVs, so why not have some off-road capabilities too. At least it was my reasoning...

I actually rent a car for transporting stuff (mostly big stuff to the dump/disposal). The savings on fuel alone during the year make op for that easily.

Maybe 15 years ago I bought an old Mazda Protege, having downsized from a Dodge Dakota. I still needed to haul stuff occasionally, so I outfitted the Protege with a trailer hitch and bought a cheap 4x8 trailer. Best of both worlds.

I've been toying with the idea of getting a hitch installed on my Prius.

That is very expensive in most of Europe. Half Europeans don't buy new vehicles, they buy second hand, which makes owning way cheaper than renting.

I can rent a van by the hour at most of the large furniture stores around here. Standard license applies as well (<3.5t). You can rent bikes, scooters, cars by the hour as well, quite convenient if you live in the city center.

Cars are cheap and tax is non-existent here, 50 GBP (which is actually the rental cost here as well, but of course the wages are lower) represents 1/15 of the price of the median vehicle.

Renting a car is not expensive in most of Europe. It's absolutely normal and affordable here in NL to rent a van/trailer when you have a large haul.

Here in Czech Republic, Poland, Slovakia, etc is renting a car worth it if you do it maybe once a year, otherwise owning a universal large car is much cheaper. I rented a van for 2 weeks and realized I could have bought a used one for just 1.5x the rental+insurance price.

Here are much smaller (10x and smaller) taxes on vehicles, that is probably the reason.

Any risk analyst could tell you all the factors you don't take into account when you do a simple comparison of renting a new, cared-for, insured vehicle for which someone else is responsible vs. the crapshoot of buying something second-hand, which you now have to take on, whatever goes wrong.

I also doubt you are taking fuel into account with this comparison, which was the primary source of savings mentioned when you own a small car and rent a truck as needed.

Most people here drive Skoda Octavia which is one of the most fuel conservative vehicles on the market, worldwide. Having a smaller car brings no measurable gains.

Same for the UK. You can often rent a small van in the UK for less than GBP50/day and a large van for less than GBP75/day if you shop around. Sometimes Saturday and Sunday count as one day too.

Large trailers (if they’re big enough to be worth hiring instead of a van) will for most people likely need additional qualifications on their licence to be allowed to drive with so they’re less popular.

I would not want to make a trip to the dump in a Panda; for that I would want a trailer.

Front-wheel driver cars in the United States are generally not rated for towing, and can void your warranty. (It's silly, because as I understand it, the exact same car in Europe usually is rated for towing).

Minivans are the exception; they are rated for towing more than some compact pickups. Unfortunately, seat design means that many minivans no longer meet one of the original design criteria of the first minivan: the ability to carry a 4x8 sheet of plywood.

>> Front-wheel driver cars in the United States are generally not rated for towing, and can void your warranty.

That is crazy, no wonder many Americans think you need a monster-truck to tow a trailer. My small Audi A3 is rated with a trailer weight of 1400kg in Europe

Eh, my VW GTI has a section on towing in the manual that says, paraphrased: "Don't do this, also, this is how you do it" and any U-Haul rental place will (poorly) install a tow hitch for their small box trailers, even on compact cars

I only did a quick search and didn't find the latest model. But for the previous model you can tow 1600kg with a Golf GTI in Norway. The tow hitch can be ordered factory installed

You can use the Panda to tow a trailer, obviously you need to mind certain weight limits.

I wasn't aware those laws were so strict in the US, perhaps that is why trucks are so much more common. Owning or renting a trailer isn't uncommon here.

> many minivans no longer meet one of the original design criteria of the first minivan: the ability to carry a 4x8 sheet of plywood.

I don't know about "most". Current Honda[0], Toyota[1], and Chrysler[2] vans are still up to the task.

[0] https://www.middletownhonda.com/honda-odyssey-cargo/

[1] https://www.toyoland.com/trucks/sienna.html

[2] https://www.boston.com/cars/news-and-reviews/2016/04/02/2017...

I’ve never had an SUV. Every car I’ve owned - Hyundai, Mazda, Volvo sedans - have all had warranties and were rated to tow.

Carrying a sheet of plywood/drywall was a criteria for the first minivan?

Just like trucks, some of which are almost exactly 4' between the wheel humps. The Toyota Previa (late-80s to mid-90s) and early Dodge Caravan vans can easily carry full sheets of plywood.

That it is possible to put a full sheet of plywood in a minivan has nothing to do with the design criteria for the first minivans. The design criteria for Dodge could have been fit a family of six and have space for luggage and a pet carrier. It is surprising that fitting 4×8 sheets were an explicit design criteria.

They fit exactly laying flat, just like some pickup trucks. Not an inch to spare. That's not a coincidence.

A lot of it is possible for sure. I used to do a lot these things in a Subaru WRX (minus the towing of course). Even drove home from Lowe's with an assembled grill on my roof rack once.

Always hated filling a sedan with trash, yard garbage, or landscaping materials though.

It’s the first three items in OPs list that separate the truck from the crossover. It would not be feasible to carry a volume of garden soil, lumber, or furniture in your Panda.

I believe the Fiat Panda is pretty roomy if you put the seats down. I think sometimes it helps to have a truck if you're transporting more rough and dirty stuff. You'll not just mess up your seats in the Panda, but also potentially the exterior and door seals/trims etc.

These are neat vehicles. Unfortunately not available in the US. Well, I think there might be a Jeep on the same platform.

I used to own a Honda Jazz (Fit) and it could fit an amazing amount of things because of the flat floor, seats that folded flat and squarish rear hatch.

I used it to move a queen size bed, refrigerator, washing machine: stuff you'd normally need a ute or van to transport.

I don't think the Panda/500 platform would even considered an usable vehicle according to USA standards :)

In Europe instead of owning big trucks or trailers for occasional use, we just rent them when needed or hire someone (usually businesses) who also owns one of those to do it. Plus, almost every store will offer delivery for reasonable prices. It generally cheaper and easier this way.

But I guess in US this usually wouldn't be viable because of the big land and less population density.

In Germany at least we home owners have station wagons. They will do the job for transporting stuff 90% of the time and are still good for the Autobahn.

As one living in the US, I think renting a truck is quite viable, as is renting a trailer for your sedan/ minivan/ SUV. Oddly, we don't seem to do it much.

I recently bought a pickup knowing that the number of days in the year I need to transport bulky stuff can't really justify owning a truck. But since it (a Honda Ridgeline) is about as livable as an SUV, I didn't feel too foolish. Given that few luxury SUVs can be had for the $US 40k I paid, and given this truck's many upgrades that help it to rival a luxury car, I was sold.

We were originally talking about urban trucks, so these are not the people who totally need the vehicle. It is generally cheaper and easier to do that your way here, and most people do. But there is a very large subset of people who want a truck regardless of the cost. People in the country often have a legitimate need.

Actually sub-urban trucks, but that was lost in all the comments. For sub-urban, I’d expect an average of urban and rural.

I've found our minivan does most of that stuff just fine. For the times I need to haul more, we have a 4x8' utility trailer.

You’re wasting money. I did the math. It’s far cheaper to own a fuel efficient small car and rent a truck when needed.

How many weekends did you assume he would need a truck? And what value did you place on his time and hassle, renting and returning a vehicle each of those weekends?

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