Comment by blackbrokkoli | Hacker News Reader

Comment by blackbrokkoli | Hacker News Reader

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Paper maps will prevail as long as not-rich people are interested in (real) outdoor activities.

Paper maps have a consistency and security no digital navigation device I ever owned or saw ever had.

I realize this is a kind of "get off my lawn" argument one could also make about digital vs analog newspapers, or books.

The key is: If my Kindle decides to do some weird updating and requires re-downloading all my books, well I guess I won't read on my subway ride home. If my map does that in northern Scandinavia, well now I am fucked.

Just print 5 maps and laminate them and you're pretty safe against weather and time. Not so much with a digital map.

Print something and it will show that print as long as it is not physically destructed. Not so much with a digital map ("oh, our services don't work in this country ha ha. Did you not read the t&c?")

Sun glare. Off the grid for three weeks. Weight. None of this is a problem with analog maps.

I guess you can solve most of these problems by throwing lots of money at god knows what military/navy device, thus I specified non-rich people. Or you know, just use a paper map.

I'll use my phone or paper maps depending on the situation.

- Backpacking for one night: Probably just phone (I use an app called Offline Topo Maps, works great).

- Backpacking for an extended amount of time: Paper

- Backpacking in winter/snow: Paper and Phone. (Only use the phone for when I'm not quite sure where I am)

- Motorcycle tour: Phone.

- Multiday rafting: Paper.

- Bicycle Tour: Phone and Paper.

- General Travel to a new place: Phone.

I feel as if one isn't necessarily better than the other, they both have their pros & cons for different activities.

I couldn't agree more. I keep maps in my vehicle for this reason, and people give me a hard time for it. No matter what I say I can't seem to get people to understand why it's still important to have maps.

Get out of cell phone service, which isn't uncommon in rural America...or lose the charge on your phone...and wind up on a winding country road...and see how well you can get yourself to civilization.

Two is one and one is none. With the way we depend on technology, it seems that society is always one power outage away from chaos.

It's not even hard to lose cell service near urban areas. In the Angeles Nat'l Forest by LA you lose cell service real quick, not even 15 miles from major civilization.

I'm like you, too. I have an awesome Harley-Davidson map book that has complete maps of almost all highways in the entire USA, state by state. Also has maps of large metro areas in it, too.

Additionally, I always buy one of those NatGeo maps for wherever I'm going hiking/backpacking/camping (typically nat'l parks/monuments, but also Nat'l forests, state parks, etc.)

With these, I'm always prepared for no cell service.

Google has had offline maps for years now. I always keep my local area updated, and whenever I go to a new place a download the map for it first. I've had out of date directions on my phone, but I've haven't had an issue with out of signal since offline maps became a thing.

I do not recall ever having drained my cell battery completely. And I have a car charger.

There are reasons to keep paper maps around, but lack of signal and running out of battery aren't on the list.

Can confirm. I run the Great Lakes Relay [1] each year. It's a 275 mile course along northern Michigan. We go through some heavily wooded areas for multiple days at a time. We usually do not have cell service. Even GPS is spotty at times. Furthermore, the driving directions and running directions don't always use roads. Here's some examples:

Driving directions: turn left at C509 (unmarked) for 2.9 miles. The exchange is past the creek. There will be big puddles, plow through them.

Problems happen when you're in a Honda civic that can't go through 2.5 feet of water. So you have to turn around and find your own way to the exchange, with no cell service.

We always bring multiple copies of a Michigan Atlas. This way we can pinpoint where we are (using GPS) and find nearby roads, despite the terrible race directions.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Lakes_Relay

As far as I know, the US Army still teaches land navigation using a paper map, protractor, pencil, and compass. At least they did when I was in (early 2000s).

Getting caught with a GPS-capable device on the land nav course was considered cheating.

Still going, that will never change.

Makes sense in a military context especially - GPS can be jammed.

Similarly, the Navy still teaches celestial navigation. Officially it's the primary means of navigation, but I suspect a lot of navigators cheat.

Celestial navigation has not been a primary means of navigation at any time since I was on active duty from 1995-2018. It has only recently begun to be taught again at all -- maybe in the last 3-4 years IIRC.

Indeed: a battery-less 50” analog ink screen is not to be sniffed at when conveying information that changes at slowest on literally a glacial timescale, and at its fastest on the timescale it takes to decide where should we put this new road?

When we travel by car, I always print out our route. There are long stretches of highway usually and I really don't want my phone on the whole time (especially at night). I'll jot notes on the paper about mileage and roughly what time I need to start looking for the next exit. I really only use the phone GPS when the destination gets close.

FWIW in the infantry, traditional land navigation is still considered an essential skill. Batteries can die, equipment can be broken but a compass is a pretty simple and hearty piece of kit.

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