You are far more likely to be killed by a drunk driver in the US than by a gun. Your chances of being killed by a gun are basically zero (unless you are travelling to the US specifically to commit suicide), so that's a somewhat bogus concern
It's true that you can limit your gun risk by being white/urban/middle-class/mentally healthy, but these are not advantages available to everyone. There's a lot of victim-blaming in some of these comments, which glosses over the fact that plenty of infants and toddlers die from guns.
Gun deaths in total numbers are roughly the same as car deaths: each are approx 30-40K per year in the USA.
If I say "What are my chances of dying by gun or car if I go on a vacation to the USA?" are you really going to factor in suicide as an option? Generally it is presumed that the person is not considering going to the USA to commit suicide on their vacation.
Thus, most people discount suicides to tailor the gun figure such that a more apples-to-apples comparison can be made.
It's like people claiming to be terrified of going to Japan because the chance of dying by a rope around your neck is insanely high compared to the USA.
Probably because the interesting statistic is not "gun deaths" but rather "fatal gun-related accidents" and "homicides" (with or without a gun involved). Suicides don't just "happen"; there is no "risk of suicide" which could be affected by the presence or absence of any particular tool. If you don't want die from suicide, the solution is as simple as not attempting suicide.
This is wrong though. Reducing access to means and methods is one of the best ways to prevent suicide and we see drops in rates of suicide whenever we see changes to a commonly used method.
Two of the best documented examples are when the UK changed from coal gas to natural gas, and when the UK introduced catalytic converters.
Obviously reducing access to means and methods is not the only thing we should be doing to reduce death by suicide. But it is an important part of the package of measures.
You're making the mistake of thinking that someone makes a choice to die and is then determined to carry out that choice and will use rational thinking to chose the most lethal method. It's often not a choice they make; they're often not determined to die and people usually do not make efforts to avoid being found; choice of method is complex but tends to focus on what's easily available and quickly fatal.
Have a read of The International Handbook of Suicide Prevention, edited by Rory C. O'Connor, Jane Pirkis, because it covers all this in detail. Or you can read the NCISH research. Or you can read Professor Nav Kapur's book Suicide Prevention.
Forcing someone to live when they wish to die is no better than killing someone who wishes to live. You are welcome to try to talk them out of it but have no right to interfere with their choice—whatever it may happen to be.
Suicide prevention is not "forcing someone to live". Suicidal thoughts are usually transient and any delay in suicidal action allows the person to seek help. Like I said in my first post, reducing access to means an methods is only part of the package that we need to be providing.
You keep trying to make this point: you keep trying to say that suicide is a choice that people make. I'll try again: it often is not a choice that people make. Please just go read the research. Here's a tweet about "Rapid Onset Despair": https://twitter.com/ProfLAppleby/status/939820235946971138
You especially need to pay attention to intoxication and suicide. Or are you saying that an impulsive decision made when very drunk is no different to a considered decision that is stable over months made when sober?
> no right
Since you mention rights, people have a right to life and suicide prevention respects that right. It respects that right in a way that wide-spread gun-ownership doesn't.
UNCRC Article 6: https://downloads.unicef.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/U...
UNDHR Article 3: https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/
UNCRPD article 10: https://www.un.org/development/desa/disabilities/convention-...
I live in England and the Mental Health Act and Mental Capacity Act specifically give HCPs the right to take away people's choice in some limited situations. I don't know where you live but you almost certainly have similar laws around substituted decision making.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_Sta...
I will say though that even ignoring gun homicides, our average homicide rate in the USA is rather high compared to other western countries.
Go live in a safe country for a few years then come back and you'll feel what you've become insensitive to
Right, but still... https://xkcd.com/1252/
I checked the ONS statistics[1] for England and Wales (including Scotland and Northern Ireland shouldn't make a huge difference) and it says: "There were 29 homicide victims killed by shooting in the year ending March 2018, three fewer than the previous year. The number of homicides by shooting has fluctuated between 21 and 32 over the last six years."
Are you sure that you aren't comparing apples to oranges, so gun deaths in the US against all homicides in the UK regardless of the method? Another quote from the same paper suggests that might be the case: "There were 726 homicides in the year ending March 2018, 20 more (3% increase) than in the previous year."
[1] https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeand...