I beg your pardon, are you gaslighting Hacker News?
I saw videos of protests. Were those fake?
I have friends from Catalonia who tell me there is an issue. Are they lying to me?
Whether you agree that Catalonia should leave Spain or not, whether you agree that Spain should jail the leaders of a movement to leave Spain or not, there clearly is an issue. There clearly is some dissent, some controversy, something going on.
As for referendums... Seems to me there was a referendum a while back, and the vote was declared illegal. I saw video of law enforcement preventing people from voting.
Was that fake? if not, do you count it amongst your evidence of the people of Catalonia refusing to leave Spain?
Your friends probably didn't tell you, that ordinary justice condemns the political leaders, not because organizing a referendum, but for public funds misappropriation, corruption and refuse to follow the law. Something reasonable, since on other countries and 99% of history when you revolt, either you win or you will get your head off. The trial was public, documented and fair. Probably an exemplary for the future on how to deal when a corrupt government wants to take over.
You also need to go back a few years and read what happened on the previous referendum, that they were legal because they were organized following the rules and because this is a democracy. If you don't like the rules you have a political parliament and elections to change the laws. Thats fine.
There is a HUGE issue, where people on both sides have been abusing the system for their own gains. Both political sides know that as long as they can keep the people fighting and "hating" each other, they can continue with the corruption that exists here.
I could say almost all the same things about whether the people of Québec want to leave Canada or not, and whether the tactics of those who want to leave are legitimate or not.
But I would never say there is no separation issue in Québec.
That's not true, I think you are confusing Catalonia with Scotland.
Preciselly one of the main issues is that a part o Catalonian society (I would say a big one, from both sides, independentist and non independentists) wants a referndum, but Spain refuses to do it.
As I said in my previous comment, there haven`t been any referendums about independence in Spain (I live in Spain so I think I know about what I'm talking), basically because the spanish goverment doesn't want to, and on the other hand, the so called "rigth to choose or decide" with a referendum is one of the things Catalonians (and also Basks) want.
Catalan identitarianism is very very recent. Culturally they are as Spanish as any other region (spain is relatively federal more so than a single monolithic culture like France). Some of the main reasons for claimed independence are "Spain steals from us". Now this is insulting to many Spaniards as the implication is that they pay taxes so everyone else can be lazy and fuck about. Essentially its based on them wanting a similar tax treaty to the basque country, another rich area who pays much less in tax than other areas with similar average salaries. In other words, rich not wanting to pay their fair share.
Slogans like that have alienated the discussion massively in Spain. Then they elected a local government that made their own campaign about leaving Spain. So kinda like the Brexit party in the UK they had to deliver, so they took crazy drastic measures, government escalated the problem massively and now we are here in no mans land.
Back to your original statement, when do you give legitimacy to a movement?
Catalunya has no historical, political, religious or ethnic divide with Spain. Literally 0. Their tripartit is gonna be mimic now by Cuidadanos, PP and PSOE. Their elites are just as corrupts as madrid. They are as religious as anywhere else in Spain. Catalunya has never been a historical region unless you concede Aragorns crown to be fundamentally Catalan but even then it is ages ago.
Basque country has a much better claim to indepdence in my opinion, and I still do not think they deserve the right of self determination. Not only in part because a great claim of their ethnic difference is still based in anti Spanish racism.
The 9N consultation came out with what, 80% support for independence?
I was responding to the OP's statement:
> We must remember that Catalonia has already held two legal referendums, where the result has been a refusal of the Catalan people to leave Spain or Independence.