Hacker News Reader

> traditional vendors aimed for the too high end product

Even when traditional vendors like 5.10 were really pushing the limits of sole thickness with stuff like their "Project" (2mm sole and unlined upper - my favorite performance shoe ever) they didn't seem to abandon the lower performance/more durable side of the market. Also, durability vs performance is a pretty reasonable tradeoff to make, as long as people who can't take advantage of the high-end shoe aren't getting mislead into buying them. Same thing with ropes - offering an 8.9mm isn't a sign a company doesn't care about durability, it just means they're selling gear to climbers who want to be on one side of the performance/durability tradeoff.

(edit: Also, not to sound preachy, but if you're having rubber-wear issues at a casual level of climbing/training, work on your foot technique! You'll climber harder, use less energy, and save money on resoles! My favorite exercise for that is long gym traverses during which I focus on making as little noise with my feet as possible.)

I think it's interesting the way climbing apparel makers have gone on to assume such a dominant presence in retail. I recall going into mountaineering shops in the mid 90s when North Face and Arc'teryx were boutique manufacturers that only catered to hardcore alpinists and climbers.

Now, if you go to the mall on a cold day every second yuppie is wearing a jacket from one of the big climbing apparel retailers. Initially they were motivated purely by utility, fashion played no role in their design choices.

If you buy a puffy or a goretex jacket from a non-climbing company it may appear technical, but they're just not as well made.

climbing apparel makers have gone on to assume such a dominant presence in retail

This isn't because the mass market started buying climbing apparel; it's because North Face, Columbia, Patagonia, decided to leverage their brand into the mainstream. You can now buy all manner of cotton citywear with a cool outdoorsy chic from any of these brands, and they're probably making 10X more money. But I wouldn't assume folks are buying more actual climbing apparel.

Whether this dilutes the brands long-term is something we'll see in another decade or two.

My primary shoe for bouldering is the Scarpa Drago, which has 2.5mm rubber. The toe rubber wears out after ~3 months. That's pretty fast for a $200 shoe, but it can be resoled several times (~$40 for a pair) for a total cost of ~$320/year. To me, that's worth it for the comfort and performance.

But I'm not sure this is really a trend overall; there are still plenty of high-end shoes from Scarpa, La Sportiva, etc. with thicker rubber.

Definitely great to see all of the new entrants though. It's amazing how much climbing shoes have evolved even in just the past decade.

That's still pretty cheap for a sport. Compare it to what your skier friends blow through for the handful of days they make it out to the mountain each year.

I go through 2 pairs of shoes per year, being heavy and climbing a lot. I don't sweat the cost at all, and tend to just buy 3-4 pairs whenever I notice them go on sale at barrabes or wherever.

All in, climbing is just about the cheapest sport you could ask for. Especially as a boulderer. Add in $8/month for a giant sack of chalk and $300 every 10 years for a new giant pad and you're set.

If you want the absolute best to win the climbing competition, that's a viable strategy and totally worth the money for.

But for a casual climber like me whose best grade is 3級(Japanese grade standard, equivalent of 6a+/6b or V3) and climb once per week in a indoor gym, it's a diminishing return.

I want my shoes to be durable enough for at least 9 months. The resole is cheaper but necessary effort for the resole(bring shoes to the resole service, negotiating how I would like to be resoled) is a quite hassle for me. So I'd rather buy a new shoes.

Think you're putting too much focus on the shoe. I've had a $40 pair of shoes for nearly 8 years without a resole for when I want comfort. Climbing V6 without issues (at least not because of my feet).

My second pair was a $200 Shaman, and they were great, unfortunately I was using them when I had limited knowledge and experience, I got them resoled once, and while worth it, I purchased a low end pair ($100) as my secondary, and have found them 90% functional compared to the high end pairs, and have been sticking with them over the high performance shoes.

They're great, but like yourself, I'm not a pro, or a prospective pro, I do it for fun, and health. I'm not going to pay $200 every 4 months for a new pair, or even resole.

Use of water-based adhesives is one of the factors in sport shoes coming apart prematurely, especially in humid climate. It is dictated by environmental concerns. Shoes with European Ecolabel have strict limits on use of organic solvents in manufacturing.

>My other complaint for a particular famous Italian climbing shoes vendor is, that they don't use strong glue.

My favorites shoes are resoled shoes from said Italian vendor. Wonderful once they've got good glue on em

Well, I like their shoes because its shape fit my foot better than most of the shoes. I have a rather wide foot so some shoes just doesn't fit no matter how big it is.