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Comment by joezydeco | Hacker News Reader

I'm sorry. Maybe the generation gap just clicked a little wider and I'm missing something.

Let me know when WHAT works for me???

The sibling thread of my comment seems to imply this is proper grammar. And, English not being my mother tongue, I won't disagree. (and I'll be happy to be corrected)

However, it doesn't sound quite proper to me and I haven't heard it before. Instead I use and hear/read "Let me know what time/day works for you".

Thanks for this. Will update the post to explain that the main reason people should stop saying it is because it might be grammatically incorrect.

"when" = "what time"

Thus: "Let me know what time works for you."

In what language?

English. You did mention the generation gap. Languages evolve, it's ok.

Well, you can argue that English devolves.

When a non-word like refudiate merits the title of "word of the year", we all lose.

  Well, you can argue that English *devolves*.

I'm writing that down as a quote.

Let I know when work for U.

Languages evolve, it's ok.

I think I actually saw that one on a cover letter.

I have to assume you're trying to either be sarcastic or trying to make some point that eludes me. The language is really pretty clear for anyone with grade school education. This being a generation gap thing is insulting to both the younger and older generations. Just being dim isn't something that should be blamed on age.

from:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/when

when At what time. They were told when to sleep.

If when = "at what time", then you can't say "Let me know when works for you" because you can't say "Let me know at what time works for you". By saying "when works for you", you're trying to use "when" as a noun phrase. But "when" is not a noun, "time" is.

Would you also use "how" in this way? "Let me know how works for you" instead of "Let me know what way works for you"?

In my 40+ years of speaking English, I've never heard this phrase used this way. Call me kooky. And I've been through a very nice set of elementary, secondary, and undergraduate schools.

Maybe it's the "works for you" that throws off my grammar sense.

Disclaimer: I'm not getting this from a rulebook. This is just about what makes me cringe.

- "Where froze over?" (bad)

+ "What place froze over?" or even "What froze over?" (good)

+ "You went where?" (good, if emphasized)

+ "Where did you go?" (good, official version)

- "When works for you?" (bad)

+ "What time works for you?" (good)

Question form vs. "Let me know ..." "I wonder ...":

"What time works for you?" ("Let me know what time works for you.")

"When do you want to X?" ("Let me know when you want to X.")

"When can we X?" ("Let me know when we can X.")

"When are you available for X?" ("Let me know when you are available for X.")

"Do you X?" ("Let me know if you X.")

"Where did you come from?" (Let me know where you came from.")

etc.

I'm also a native English speaker, and I also presumed that a word had been omitted in the title. It was easy enough to figure out from context once in the article, but from the title alone I didn't even try to guess.

it isn't anything particularly new.

pronoun

when (interrogative) What time; which time

"Since when do I need your permission?"

No way. You can't use when as a direct contraction or substitute for "what time" when it's the indirect object of a sentence.

Look, I'm all for efficiency in communications. It's a hackish thing to do. But this is just plain silly. If you're so convinced this is a real and usable form of English, call 10 customers or clients and try to use it.

It is a real form of English. If it weren't, I wouldn't have immediately known what it meant. It's prescriptively not very fancy even in dialects where it exists, but it is how people talk.

You know immediately what "I can haz cheezburger" and "All your base are belong to us" mean. Does it mean they're valid English?

I think his point (and I'm not attempting to dissect the original phrase in question either) might be rooted in some frustration over a perceived decline of the English language.

It does seem as though we have gotten to the point where common usage of a word or phrase often becomes acceptable as correct usage.

An example: Everyone knows what a person means when he says he's nauseous, even the right word was nauseated. It doesn't mean the dictionary should be changed to accommodate that usage, right? I believe at least one American English dictionary now accepts nauseous as a synonym for nauseated. (Yuck)

To be fair, we got to the point where common usage of a word or phrase often becomes acceptable as correct usage about 50,000 years ago. That's how the English language came about in the first place. If we were strict linguistic prescriptivists from the beginning, we'd still be speaking flawless Ooga Booga.

I agree that some changes make the language less clear and might be ill-advised for that reason, and I also agree that some usages are not appropriate for all crowds, but let's not pretend the English language as it was taught in American schools in the late 20th century is the pinnacle of verbal communication.

Agreed. But lets also agree that given the ever-growing tidal forces of SMS and Twitter that we try to retain some legibility in our language and communications.

For example: Everyone one of you reading this has probably encountered someone using "U" instead of "you" in non-SMS business or technical correspondence. Is that laziness or extreme efficiency? Maybe they're still a Prince fan. Does it even matter to most people anymore?

Or what, the Grammar Police will lock you up?

It's a perfectly understandable turn of phrase, and trying to insist that it's "not in my English" is pretty silly.

What's up with "turn of phrase" anyway? What are you turning?

You don't need to worry about the grammar police. You need to worry about the person with whom you are trying to make an appointment. Saying "let me know when works for you" is about like saying "let me know where you would like to meet at." The former is at best an example of bad style. There is no good reason to intentionally risk making a bad first impression. No one is going to say "I really like this guy's stance against the grammar police. Let's meet with him as soon as possible."

Sure you can, as in "Let me know when your flight leaves" or "Let me know when this discussion becomes extremely dull".

we use it around the office, i've used it with clients, and clients have used it with me. perhaps its regional. on the research i did, it seems to be a brittishism that migrated across some time ago.

What time.

Yay Hacker News. I come for articles but I stay for the endless sarcasm.

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