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Comment by lowiqprogrammer | Hacker News Reader

Not sure why you're being down voted it's a serious problem. Probably because half of Hacker News are Indians

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Because his figures are as outdated as he is. You just joined the same bandwagon. ISRO launches rockets into space: Oh but the toilets and slums. News about a tech startup getting funding: Oh but the toilets and slums. We, in India, call you lot the toilet brigade who regurgitate stuff shown on your news channels instead of actually travelling to India. But I dare not ask you to travel to India as your favorite destination would either be the Taj Mahal or a visit to Mumbai's slums. It's as if the rest of India doesn't even exist. So it's best you stay out of India. Now when Indians downvote your ignorant and condescending comment don't get upset. You deserve it.

I think that comments like 'Fix the toilets first' when ISRO achieves a new milestone is careless because space research has serious defence implications. India is surrounded by multiple hostile and semi-hostile countries and should be able to deter certain actions from other countries. Only when people feel safe and secure can they start building and progressing.

However, I think comments like this only further darken the image of Indians to westerners. India is, on average, a very bad place to live. For example, India's state with highest HDI -Kerala ( where I am from )- is only comparable to certain Eastern European states.

And despite this positive news about startup funding, there has been massive capital flights from India in the recent years.

We have serious problems. Acknowledging them is the first step to solving them.

India already got 100% toilet coverage https://swachhbharatmission.gov.in/sbmcms/index.htm

Look I'm not interested in portraying anything to Westerners. Whether it will darken India's image or not is not my worry. I'm here busting falsehood. If anyone tells me half a billion people shit on streets every single day I will call out such bullshit whether it darkens image or not. I'm fed up of hearing nonsense like this. If you aren't then good for you.

> India is, on average, a very bad place to live.

Not at all. I have been to many countries. The only difference is better infrastructure and waste management. Rest all is fluff (fashion, dining etc are all luxuries that are optional). I have never felt India is a "bad place" to live after all my travels. India is actually beautiful if you put some effort into exploring. The problem is that you are from Kerala and South Indians (especially keralities and tamilians) live in their own bubble. I'm a South Indian too before you get all worked up. We take too much pride in our States. Don't do that. Go explore North East. See how beautiful it is. Lest I forget the beautiful Himalayan range with all the hill stations that adore it. Or the region of Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh. There is so much to explore! Kerala is not the only state comparable to Eastern European countries. You have to travel to various States in India first before you make any such incorrect assumptions. Else there is no difference between you and the next foreigner you meet taking pictures with the poor in Mumbai's slums.

> We have serious problems. Acknowledging them is the first step to solving them.

We have and are doing it! What makes you think we aren't? If you are only looking at numbers then you are going to get all the wrong information. All these numbers and metrics are good for theoretical discussions but the moment you try to derive too much meaning into practical life you are just going to end up fooling yourself. Most of these numbers are extrapolated using methodologies all have accepted. Whether they are accurate or not is impossible to determine considering the population of India. I'm not deriding numbers calculated by these well established bodies. I'm questioning the sanity of those who blindly accept these numbers without checking anything on ground. When the sentiments on ground is exactly opposite to what numbers predict then something is wrong with the methodology adopted. Acknowledging that is the first step. Else you'll blindly accept the numbers and keep working on fixing something that maybe doesn't need fixing. There has to be some sort of balance between theoretical and practical aspects of things. And yes, many of these same bodies have accepted their procedures for calculating were incorrect and made revisions to their formulas from time to time. We are dealing with statistics here not science. Most of these metrics are extrapolated from sample data when complete data isn't available. And with population as diverse as that of India it is impossible to be accurate. Take numbers as a guidance not as absolute truth.

I am an American guy working in NY for an Indian company. I absolutely love it. All my colleagues are Indian and they are super nice. We never stress out about anything. Just hang out and do some work. Americans seem to be deeply biased about India. Lots of people think in hyperbole and generalizations. You don't know what something is like until you spend lots of time with it. Americans just hear headlines and assume they're rampantly true.

By this same logic, everyone in USA shoots guns and eats McDonalds daily.

Exactly! Thanks for sharing your experience.

What I am doing here is battling stereotypes. Nothing against Americans or anyone else here. It is the media that exaggerates stuff as they have to sell something. We just have to be wise enough to not believe everything shown on media. There is always more to it than that meets the eye.

> By this same logic, everyone in USA shoots guns and eats McDonalds daily.

Yes! This! When I read articles saying that half a billion people shit on streets every single day in India I question the sanity of the people who came up with these numbers as well as the sanity of those who believe such nonsense. Half a billion people shitting every single day, on the streets, is a whole lot of poop. I mean... whatever happened to common sense?

The media definitely has a giant effect, I agree. Maybe some Americans believe what they hear about more deeply than others. But all of us are talking about it, so clearly the media has to have at least some effect in structuring this biased conversation.

Funnily enough, the same media outlets who talk about shitting in the streets in India say the same thing about San Francisco, like, really often. It's a trope that must have been proven by some analytics platform to get a lot of clicks. So the content writers are instructed to juice this topic for all its worth. Craziness

Any content writer/journalist here ? How do they come to these numbers ? I am just curious. What resources do they use ?

Any nationality in NY, Indian or otherwise, would hardly be a representative of the countries where they came from.

This impression of India seems really strange to me. I've never been, but it's been 'top of my list' for years. I was completely baffled when I mentioned this to someone and the reply was 'oh but it's just poverty tourism' ... What? Why would I want to do that on any level, even short of any sort of self-aware embarrassment, what's the appeal? I can understand the Taj Mahal more, but your comment reminds me of it, tourists actually seek out slums to... what exactly, gawk at and photograph the poor?

It would be as bizarre and uncouth at home as I find the idea of it abroad.

I very much hope not to fit that mold when I eventually visit. I don't think I would - I would mainly just like to eat and cook! - but perhaps it's naïve to think I'd be any less annoying than the next gora.

It is exactly what it is. Poverty tourism. Tourists are deliberately taken to slums and poverty stricken places as that is what they wish to see. And no I don't blame the tourists alone. There is an entire industry that works around poverty tourism. There are tour guides in India who know exactly what the tourists are after and they lead them to the filthiest of places (some are deliberately kept that way) so they can take their photos and publish it on the net and the guide earns his buck. Only the lucky few tourists who manage to break out of the clutches of these pesky poverty tour guides get to experience "real India".

But what the hell? I don't understand why anyone would want to do that...

https://www.orfonline.org/expert-speak/the-paradox-of-slum-t...

Read it here. It is true and real. It is a big industry.

I must admit, I've read this comment with impersonated Indian accent... am I bad?

Nevertheless, I've been to India (not the places you've mentioned though :) as these visits were business trips), and it's OK, coming from Europe.

Well I'm an Indian and I do have an Indian accent. Not sure why that is bad. It's just an accent. Not something to be ashamed of. And if you find it funny then hey at least you got a good laugh! I don't find it offensive :D

Nah, you're ok. You might have read that in a Raj-from-big-bang-theory accent, not necessarily Indian :)

There will be naysayers when a second or third world country achieves a milestone.

Ah, a typical ad hominem. It's not outdated. The numbers are still in favor of almost half of Indian's population not having access to a toilet. A simple Google search will learn that the program introduced by the government has mixed results and even though they are throwing massive amounts of money into the construction of said toilets, there is barely any reform going on in education or in the typical household where defecating in public is still considered normal. It will take a few generations to get to the roots of the cultural problem. I have been to India recently, New Delhi even, and more than once I was greeted with people defecating in public. Even outside the perimeters of the designated defecation streets.

Some of you are just unable to wrap your head around the fact that 5 numbers or 2 business trips don't make you an expert on the "cultural problems" of a country.

Somehow the startup ecosystem is doing just fine in SF even with all the drug addicts and people shitting on the street[1] over there. But the same problem is a dealbreaker for the startup ecosystem of India? Like do you really not see the problem with your reasoning here?

[1] Human feces incidents in SF rising: https://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-human-poop-pro...

During my commute, I walk around one of the most expensive real estate in the world. I am frequently greeted by people shooting up drugs on that street. The govt has been throwing immense amount of money at the problem.

So, your point is ?

What does the google search tell you about mass american shootings and what government is doing about them?

Mass shootings affect 0.00001% of Americans, it’s not a comparable problem.

mass shooting threat is throughout the usa. don't throw in numbers to justify your points. average American does get affected by mass shooting, directly or indirectly

There are no "designated defecation streets". Stop bullshitting here. At least the poor in India aren't filled with the filth that some of you carry in your rotten minds.

Probably because most readers just tune out after the first sentence. Every HN article about the Indian space program or any other high-tech achievement is always accompanied by hand wringing about why a poor country is putting money into this instead of building toilets, curing polio, etc etc.

Polio was already eradicated in 2012(?) from India. They should replace it with something else now

We can talk about it when Tenderloin is gone. What hypocrisy!

They have pay for use toilets in Colombia, and they work great. You pay a small fee and there is an attendant that cleans on duty the whole time.

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