Comment by AnthonBerg | Hacker News Reader

Comment by AnthonBerg | Hacker News Reader

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In MAPS’ completed Phase 2 trials with 107 participants, 61% no longer qualified for PTSD after three sessions of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy two months following treatment. At the 12-month follow-up, 68% no longer had PTSD. All participants had chronic, treatment-resistant PTSD, and had suffered from PTSD for an average of 17.8 years.

https://maps.org/research/mdma/ptsd/phase3

Drugs used in therapy can resolve decades of treatment-resistant PTSD. Would you reconsider your position against drugs in therapy?

Would you be willing to look at the scientific results? Would you take a chance on closing your eyes momentarily to the word "drug"? This is therapy. Therapy is scientific results applied to the betterment of mankind.

To me, it would be deeply unethical to stop or ignore this work.

I've actually seen the results of "street therapy" for PTSD using MDMA by responsible adults. It was ... staggering. It's hard to express the boundless privilege of seeing PTSD melt off a person you love in an evening. And stay gone. Treatment-resistant PTSD. Decades of it. Gone. Because a substance was ingested. After endless therapy and doing all the right things. Sure, therapy worked. Glacially. There was constant pain. Constant anxiety. Gone. Just like in the studies. Rigorous, careful studies, taking decades of careful preparation in all spheres, political and medical.

But the anecdote doesn't matter. We have the studies.

I'm not an anti-drug puritan. (That would be so so hypocritical.) I think the criminalization of e.g. MDMA and the others is deeply foolish and has done a lot of harm. (To make an understatement. Frankly, I think you should be able to get clean liquid acid or MDMA at the local pharmacy. Why not? "Who the fuck are you to tell me what to do with my brain chemistry if I'm not hurting anyone?", eh?)

I don't want to take anything away from people, I just want us to think clearly about what's really going on when these kind of excellent results occur.

In the excitement over the successes with MDMA we shouldn't overlook things like Emotional Freedom Technique or Feldenkrais Technique that have also had wonderful successes with PTSD and yet don't involve ingesting substances. If we do, we risk missing out on the essential aspects of effective therapy.

MDMA has a terrible comedown. Suicide Tuesdays is a thing after raves. After a 3 day festival, where you are taking molly like it's candy, Monday you're fine/ alittle hungover from the drinking but come Tuesday the world is fucking hopeless.

Agreed!

(I want to note that I was replying to this specifically: “ I'm just against using them in therapy. It's irresponsible.” It was a rather crystallized statement, but we clearly see nuances here :) I take it that we both fully agree that drugs must not overshadow therapy, and that there are great temptations for shortcuts.)

You're totally right, I went a little overboard there, sorry.

Well met! :-)

But a lot of the time psychoactive drugs can remove psychological barriers that would otherwise prevent constructive participation in therapy. Not everyone needs it, but judging from how many people are in more-or-less-perpetual therapy, I think you might be undervaluing psychoactive drugs in that context.

> I think you might be undervaluing psychoactive drugs in that context.

I can only assure you I'm not. Your brain can already make all the psychoactive drugs you need.

These chemicals (LSD, Psilcybin) are like electroshock therapy, just a little more subtle. There are more precise and/or delicate modalities that are effective. I don't think it's too controversial to believe that we should concentrate on the precise and delicate therapy, eh?

> If we do, we risk missing out on the essential aspects of effective therapy.

No we don't; you're just moralizing against what appears to be effective treatment. No one is saying psychedelics are panacea, that's just a strawman.

Stop projecting your own misguided personal ethics. There are real people that need real help.

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