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Comment by elchupanebre | Hacker News Reader

SEC applies Howey Test to determine if a given security is an investment contract (security) and as such must be registered if offered to public.

The test is quite simple: * It's an investment of money * There is an expectation of profits from the investment * The investment is in a common enterprise * Any profit comes from the efforts of the one offering the investment or a third party

Cryptocurrency trading in general could be either but ICOs are clearly in the security category.

I would be curious to see Wyoming etc. try to overturn Supreme Court's decision on SEC vs. Howey. If they are successful it will be the end of SEC and the public markets in the US as we know them.

Re: Liechtenstein. They don't have a stock exchange so they don't have anything to lose.

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Nobody is trying to overturn the Howey and more important subsequent Federal court decisions.

The law in Congress will tell the SEC to stop wasting time on this and give a default status for digital asset issuers to exist in that isnt securities. Exactly as a handful of states have done.

Digital asset exchanges and issuers already exist in Liechtenstein. Kindly learn more about that.

Things that are actually securities in liechtenstein are passportable to other European countries that do have stock exchanges.

I think that was a very reductive and inaccurate comment on a multifaceted topic

I said: "These is no stock exchange in Liechtenstein. They have nothing to lose."

Your response: "Digital asset exchanges and issuers already exist in Liechtenstein."

Why do you conflate the two? Is it intentional or due to lack of understanding? L. is trying to make money on ICOs because it does not have anything to lose with regular financial markets.

> I think that was a very reductive and inaccurate comment on a multifaceted topic

And I think that was an attempt to intentionally complicate a simple topic.

Crypto can be used as an investment in a form of an ICOs and that should be registered.

It can also be used as a currency instrument for (mostly illegal) transactions. When used as such it does not need to be registered.

I guess its not clear: Liechtenstein doesn't need a stock exchange because securities - stocks in particular - issued in Liechtenstein are already tradable in countries that do have stock exchanges. People sometimes do this because some their own country might have a withholding tax on capital or other uncompetitive nuances.

You’re right in that they don't have one and have little to lose by creating digital securities and digital assets clarity.

Liechtenstein’s law isn't only about cashing in on ICOs. It covers digital securities as well, which Europe’s other securities exchanges are not equipped to handle.

There is only upside for them to provide a clear framework for digital securities and digital assets, making it easier for an issuer to choose and regulatory clarity for all participants

We speaking the same language yet?

> Liechtenstein’s law ... covers digital securities as well

L's population is around 35 thousand. It's like City Council of Menlo Park CA gaining a status of a sovereign state and then making venture capitalists from Sand Hill Road exempt from SEC rules. L is trying to make a buck by being more permissive because they have nothing to lose otherwise.

> We speaking the same language yet?

I suppose we do. English that is :)

https://medium.com/@straumli/not-blockchain-f569f288b6f1

Yeah, they’ve historically been pretty good at that, making quite a few quick bucks in financial services leading to one of the highest standards of living for a neighborhood acting as a country, and their bilateral treaties are crafty and well maneuvered

Its nice to see people applying themselves very well

Yes its like if Menlo Park was sovereign but also had economic unions negotiated with DC and the rest of North America, you would find that very convenient

I don't doubt for a second that money laundering and tax evasion services are very lucrative. Look at Cayman Islands. Their per capita GDP (PPP) is higher than in the States!

If you are in the business of offering furtive financial services it makes total sense to stay abreast with the times and add crypto to the portfolio. It's a great instrument for both money laundering and tax evasion.

and every other financial service

some of the largest public companies and hedge funds are incorporated in cayman islands. the obvious rebuttal would be that they too are vehicles for money laundering and tax evasion, but also everything else because the point is that you can't distinguish when a state doesn't use its resources demonizing transactions

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