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Comment by cicero | Hacker News Reader

There are very solid reasons for seeing marriage as a life-long commitment between a man and a woman for the purpose of providing a stable home for the children that they conceive that has nothing to do with hating gays. This is something humans have understood for thousands of years, but only in my lifetime we seem to have forgotten.

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No, there really aren't. The socioeconomic consequences of a couple are the socioeconomic consequences of a couple, no matter the dangly bits. We're not all having children.

It also turns out raising children also is not negatively affected by the parents being gay. (Plenty of studies on the subject, go read some).

Leaves actually having children. Is your argument that we all should breed? Then your argument is seriously broken, the world is about 300% over capacity already.

So, no - it's still rooted in hate. (Or fear, really)

You're providing counter-arguments against the correctness of the argument the parent suggested, but otherwise good people can believe incorrect arguments. You can't assume that someone was aware of all those studies, some of which have been conducted in the years since, and none of which are taught about in elementary school. It is not sufficient to demonstrate that the Mozilla CEO believed something incorrect, you also have to demonstrate that evil was the only explanation.

This is a common misconception which reduces structural discrimination to individual resentment. In reality, it does not matter at all whether the actor had evil in their heart — it only matters what the effects are (ability to adopt, hospital visitation rights, ability to immigrate etc).

Being right about everything that matters is an unreasonable standard to hold people to, because nobody is right about everything that matters. I guarantee that you and I are both mistaken in ways that cause us to support sub-optimal policies whose effects legitimately hurt people. If we keep open minds, we may even realize some of these errors in the future - unless we're just wrong so we can be evil, which is why there's a distinction between "wrong" and "purposely wrong in order to be evil."

I agree with you, but this is a truly unpopular opinion.

People REALLY hate the idea that they’re responsible for things they haven’t even conceived of.

In your life, how do you handle the guilt for your countless unknowing political sins? Does it look exactly the same as what you would do if you didn't think you were guilty?

I don’t do much with the unknowing ones.

With newly known ones, I feel bad, and then I try to understand how I could be better.

I’m not sure I understand your question.

I still don't understand, how would gays being allow to marry have an effect on hetero marriges?

By the way today a man and a man, or a woman and a woman, or whatever, can have children , and in that case should provide a stable home for them. In my country most gay couples that bother about marrying, usually also want to raise children and provide them with a stable home.

This' "gays" are destroying family values', is a silly fallacy, because these marrying gays, WANT a family.

Saying Your family is OK and their family is somehow dangerous reeks of hate. .

The point is that differentiating between a gay couple and a straight couple on anything (other their sex organs) is just absurd and without any hold in reality. Even if there was a significant difference between these couple regarding child rearing, the burden of proof is on you. The fact that marriage between man and woman is old and known doesn't mean it is good, or better than other types of couples.

Most people who assume this difference, assume it a priori to any knowledge or facts. People who want to limit others because of ignorance is called hatred in my book, even if some of your best friends are gay...

so before getting married a couple has to sign a contract expressing that they will conceive children, otherwise be stripped from their married status?

It's curious that I've never seen anyone campaining against childless marriages, only against gay marriages.

My 20 something cousin had emergency surgery that resulted in a hysterectomy. She can never have children. According to your argument she shouldn't get married either?

So nonbinary people shouldn't be able to marry at all?

Your simplified model falls apart the moment it meets the real world.

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