The current violent (and often visibly anti-China) actions ensure that the mainland's public opinion fully supports the government in taking a tough and inflexible stance against the protesters as long as violence and disturbances continue.
The protesters should take a page from Gandhi's book: You couldn't fault him. In HK the government does not even need to try to fault the protesters...
The protests started because of the Extradition Law, but had to morph because of the government's response: 五大訴求 缺一不可 (5 demands, not 1 less). Not a single one of them is about independence nor are any anti-China. You know that as well as I do. Mainlanders should actually read what we want instead of believing their government.
Why do you attack the flag of the country (and even the flag of HK) rather than the flag of the party (there is one), then?
> Not a single one of them is about independence nor are any anti-China.
Then you should stop actions that look anti-China even when they are reported on media like the BBC...
Edit: No answers to these questions, just downvotes... Some might say this speaks louder than words.
It seems to me, that in China to attack the party is to attack the state, and vice verse. To quote France's Louis XIV: L'état, c'est moi.
Am I incorrect?
As mentioned, the party actually has a flag, if they wanted to make things beyond doubt.
Maybe the protestors should use the CCP flag instead, but I would give them the benefit of the doubt.
HN is a community. Users needn't use their real name, but do need some identity for others to relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be a different kind of forum. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
By the way, the flag is very prominently displayed in the annual 1st October parade along with the PLA flag (do you know about that one?), in addition to the country flag.
I'm sure they also know what it means to fly the HK British colonial flag, the Union Jack, etc.
It goes beyond the benefit of the doubt...
For someone who claims to have lived in China for 10 years you seem very not curious about your environment and its history.
Even Cantonese speaking local HKers, who tried to remove roadblocks (so their vehicles could pass) set up by the protesters, were regularly attacked.
I don't disagree there is some racism going on in some areas in Hong Kong. But it is definitely not the normal. You will definite not see that behavior in the financial district.
But its no different that some Beijingers thinking southern people are barbarians is it? You simply ignore and move on.
> Even Cantonese speaking local HKers, who tried to remove roadblocks (so their vehicles could pass) set up by the protesters, were regularly attacked.
This is clearly bias. Given, the only people that would try to remove roadblocks are pro-china people. Most local HK people avoid the protest areas and stay indoors.
And people who needed to use the road to get somewhere are automatically "pro-china"? And they deserved to be attacked?
Can you even believe yourself? Honestly?
They kidnapped one person, as far as I know. I agree they crossed the line there, and there's no excuse for that. But that's an exception, not the norm.
> They have said they were not behind the Extradition Law, and yet they force our government's hand.
Where's the evidence they are behind that? How are they forcing the HK government's hand?
> They have said HKers have freedom, and yet they call us terrorists and cockroaches for exercising it.
You have the freedom to peaceful demonstrations an protests, not violence or destruction. And the CCP most certainly did not call you cockroaches, some angry mainlanders maybe, but not the CCP.
(EDIT: downvoters, please use the truth to argue your side, instead of downvoting me to try to suppress it.)
You don't know much, which is why you're being downvoted. The extradition law that sparked these protests was a formalisation/legalisation of a decade long string of kidnappings with increasing frequency and visibility.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causeway_Bay_Books_disappearan...
https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/kidnap-03012019112417...
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/economy/article/2141462/chin...
But these are still exceptional cases, the vast majority of HK people have no reason to fear the same fate.
> The extradition law that sparked these protests was a formalisation/legalisation of a decade long string of kidnappings with increasing frequency and visibility.
Where are the reports to back up this "a decade long string of kidnappings"? Or are there just the same three cases?
Where's the evidence China was behind the extradition law?
In any case, the extradition law has been officially (announced to be) withdrawn. Stop using it to justify the continuing and escalating violence and destruction.
Would you reconsider your viewpoint even if you were given an entire essay detailing everything you just asked for? If you can honestly say yes, I'll consider it. But I have a feeling there isn't enough evidence in the world for you.
I can't reconcile your comments with conscionable good-faith behaviour that's commonplace on HN.
I didn't discard anything, I never said kidnappings are OK.
Neither are your violence and destruction. Stop justifying your own evil with China's.
Well surely one is enough to be angry about
Let's be angry about it, let's protest peacefully, let's demand answers, let's demand their return.
But let's not use the kidnappings as an excuse for violence and destruction.
Please, ask me for sources. I have probably over a hundred unspinnable photos and videos collected from r/HongKong by now. New ones keep coming every day.
Here's an appetiser:
Here's a video of the same protester shooting the airsoft glock on the bridge where they threw molotovs. You can keep trying to spin your "unspinnable" photos taken out of context, people have been trying non-stop. But the fact remains that despite overwhelmingly biased western MSM support of the protesters, no mainstream outlet has endorsed these paranoid PLA agent provocateur narrative, or the many other outrageous misinformation attempts especially by r/HongKong users (Legco was inside job, look at the commissioner watch and other extremely stupid conspiracy theories). Confidently believing /r/HongKong is a reliable source of information is media literacy 101 tier ignorance.
One day we read an interview with a guy who took part in the storming of the LegCo and everybody here is in awe before its determination. The next, someone criticise violent actions and you guys claim that they are by government' agents provocateurs...
And every day I can watch BBC reporters following violent protests from within.
There is nothing wrong with admitting that some forms of protest are hurting the cause of democracy.
We already know how that turns out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causeway_Bay_Books_disappearan...
Aren't you intentionally turning a blind eye to the fact that the Chinese government has been conducting false flag operations where they plant heir operatives within crouds disguised as protesters to then vandalize and attack not only bystanders but also the police to justify drawing a violent reaction and smear the reputation of the pro-democracy protesters?
It seems odd that you are so against violence but somehow fail to mention the fact that the Chinese government is using violence to discredit pro-democracy protests.