when are people gonna figure out that you cant make everyone happy and the people who whine about pronouns wont ever stop
nice downvotes lol, cant handle the truth?
if theres a example with bob and alice and we say he and she, whats the problem? do we really need to be extra careful in case Bob in the example is trans?
Like thats really a problem? this doesnt have anything to do with basic respect. its just people who want to control everyone else
Intentionally using the wrong name or pronouns for someone is disrespectful, and would be considered an HR violation in a California workplace.
and when you let someone control what you can and cant say because of their feelings its gonna be a bad time. california is already eating itself. is that really what you want?
The topic is about when a real user asks that they be referred to with specific pronouns, and other people instead refer to them with different pronouns or avoid using gendered pronouns. This whole conversation is about real people.
but this is about editing posts to be gender neutral. why do we need to do that? if YOU dont have a specific pronoun then whats the problem?
This is different from a public space where the rules are more relaxed (but there are still some controls). And you're welcome to be as shitty as you want in your own home.
guess what, rules against what you cant say are fine but you cant make me have say something. thats tyranny. youre welcome to be as outraged as you want in your own home but you dont get to control my life because of it. its called freedom.
That's exactly what trans people want, to be given the same respect as everyone else. If you use pronouns for everyone other than the only trans person on the team, they're quite rightly going to be upset.
guess what, easier to dump the unreasonable person. but of course if you cant see people for more than their skin color then youll think its discrimination. i cant help you with that.
and heres a bonus story for the day about how this gender neutral stuff is hurting people and kids: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7542005/Girls-skipp...
That puts it at about the roughly same numbers as the number of redheads. It's uncommon, sure, but it's not totally minuscule.
Trans folks are also one of the most likely (if not the most likely) minorities to suffer physical violence just for who they are. All they are asking for is the same basic level of respect and politeness that anyone else gets.
Well no, that is the entire reason the situation isn't an open-and-shut-nothing-to-see-here non-controversy.
The other 97-99% of people go through life without ever particularly asserting that a specific personal pronoun needs to be used for them. They'll get antsy if someone is trying to insult them, but it looks a lot like the insult matters more than the pronoun. That 99-97% of people don't really control their public identity; have you ever seen someone trying to shake a nickname they don't particularly like? An identity is in the hands of the community. Asserting control is actually highly unusual, transexual or otherwise, and goes beyond the bounds of routine politeness.
The issue is that there is an activist minority (who may or may not be part of the trans community) who want to force people to talk in a certain way. That is not basic politeness and respect. It is complicated and context specific - especially once people start getting sacked and excluded over it.
Yes? "Hey, I don't really like being called that." "Oh shit, sorry, didn't know."
> That 99-97% of people don't really control their public identity
What? Sure they do. They were clothing that puts them in a particular group. (Or do you feel you'd have a hard time identifying punks or businessmen?) Or they'll wear religious symbols. Or speak with an accent. Or carry a firearm. Or any number of other external identity markers beyond gender.
> It is complicated and context specific
It really, really isn't. If you are unsure, ask someone their pronouns. If you make a mistake, quickly apologize and move on. Literally end of story.
None of that is control, and it would be equivalent of a transsexual choosing their dress and appearance - which they already do.
It isn't that these requests are unreasonable, it is simply that this is a situation that goes well beyond basic politeness. This is asking society to change how it uses language.
And this change being achieved by bureaucratic fiat rather than because everyone thinks it is a good idea. It may or may not work out, but it just isn't basic politeness - there is real change being pushed here.
you cant force people to say things even though they'll probably use what you tell them because most people are nice. but were not going to change the rules for 99.9% of people and worry about preferred pronouns all the time in every little occasion just because someone exists who doesnt follow the normal pronouns
Transgender Demographics: A Household Probability Sample of US Adults, 2014
American Journal of Public Health
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227939/
Transgender individuals made up 0.53% (95% confidence interval = 0.46, 0.61) of the population
Pediatrics Journal
https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/pediatrics/14...
Participants included 2168 (2.7%) students who identified as TGNC and 78 761 (97.3%) students who identified as cisgender.
There's a reason I give such a wide range. Maybe I should widen it to 0.5-3%, but I believe that in the past 5 years we've seen an increase in the number of people who feel comfortable with a trans or gender nonconforming identity.
Using that article as a source for trans population is like saying 40% of the US population are people of colour, therefore 40% of the US population is black.
and guess what there are 100s of these kids being treated for abuse and psychological damage now https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7541679/Hundreds-yo...
if trans people change their name then people will just use the pronoun that goes with the name automatically so its specifically people who have a name that is not normal for that pronoun or visually look different that even have a problem
so its super rare for this to be a major issue to spend all this time even discussing it
A quick search gives the number 0.6% according to a 2016 study.
I've seen the numbers that range from ~1% (or a little under) to as much as 3%, like the study above.
The original comment above stated "trans", though, not T+GNC.
If one already uses gender neutral pronoun, it should be enough, if it is not, then that person is a jerk similar to e.g. someone that whats to be called a "sir" (as in "yes, sir").
theyre not talking about any specific person are they? no, they want to change all the examples to be gender neutral. why? when people hear Bob they think He. they dont ask "well what if bob is trans?"