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Comment by debatem1 | Hacker News Reader

I've done similarly career-threatening things in the past and my strongest advice is to stand and deliver in an actionable way.

Telling the CEO he is full of shit is not actionable. Telling the CEO that his plan will not work and that to save the situation he needs to do XYZ is. If you've judged the situation correctly and that level of drama is actually necessary, then either they will respect you and do it or they wont and you'll quit/be fired. Either should be fine for you from your perspective as an employee even if financially it's a leap.

I say it's good advice because it's turned out to be very good for my career. I've had it blow up in my face once and turn out better than silence every other time. That's a muh better ratio than I would have guessed, I suspect because it's easier to fear the consequences of action than inaction.

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> ... either they will respect you and do it or ...

Another possible/likely option - they'll pay lip service to your plan, convince you to stay, and then gradually slip back to the full of shit approach they originally intended.

Basically I'm not willing to go to this level of drama unless the consequences of going the other way are really, really obvious. That means things like illegality, safety of life issues, ethical breaches, total project failure, etc. If you just think they're wrong and don't want to deal with their wrongness anymore, tell them so in your resignation letter. Hell, maybe by the time you have an offer in hand they're have realized you're right. Won't that be fun.

But ultimately there is no substitute for good judgement here. You have to decide, sometimes quickly, whether a particular situation demands immediate action of whether it can be forestalled or defeated by other (less risky) means. And you're absolutely right that it requires good judgement and preparation to ensure that they cannot contain or deceive you.

If ethical breaches cause you to escalate to this level of drama, may I ask in what sector you are employed? In my own industry I see breaches like this as a matter of habit and I can't even imagine being generally employed in IT if this bothers you. Unless of course you have really lax ethical standards compared to mine. That's also an option.

I work in security.

If you're in an environment where serious ethical failure happens on the regular I would encourage you to get out. There are plenty of jobs, including in IT, where the worst you'll see is self-serving lies and corporate doublespeak.

As for my standards being laxer than yours, well, I don't know you.

So do I!

I'm definitely looking to transition to a more healthy environment, but so far every place I have visited has a similar terrible attitude to the practicalities of security and handling breaches. I have asked for clarification by legal sources many times, but this appears to be legal, with the obvious exception of the illegal things. Those are not legal but they don't have a governing body that actively punishes transgressions. It also appears to be widespread. Perhaps I just live in the wrong country :)

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