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Comment by jl2718 | Hacker News Reader

So many ideas in my head that I really want to be working on, and I can’t seem to separate myself from the mental model of having a set position in a heirarchy, taking confused and/or hostile direction from seemingly arbitrary sources of authority. Some kind of fear, not even financial, more like the idea of getting lost, losing touch, never finding my way back, being abandoned and undesirable, dying alone. And beyond that, I can’t seem to rationalize why my job is so stressful; I’ve kept my head in war zones and extreme sports, but corporate politics feels like it’s killing me. I don’t know why, or whether I should give up hope that it will get better. The lay-off fantasy disappears when it becomes reality. Dreams give way to fears, preparing for interviews, obsessing over things which I have no control, thinking I’m the only one that feels this way.

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I love writing software, but I think there's something about the psychology of it that is really unnatural.

Not long ago we were just hominids hanging out in small bands, and our psychological sense of worth and reward were tied to our capacity to find and kill something big enough for everyone to eat. Or perhaps to turn that mammoth into shoes and clothes to survive the winter.

I wonder if this system fires the same way when we're coding. The contribution we offer is valued by the market and desperately needed by society but it's very abstract compared to bringing home a fresh mammoth.

We may be solving hard problems for great compensation, but as far as our subconsciousness is concerned we're just sitting at our desks all day long making symbols dance on screen. Its the polar opposite of the lives humans used to lead.

Not that I'd want to turn the clock back. I'm very fond of coding, modern medicine and hot showers. Though I do wonder if mammoth meat was any good...

Not too long ago we also learned how to make plants, animals, and other humans work on our behalf (voluntary or not, the whip or the carrot).

For many of us, our lives have been shifted to the work of squirrels.

We climb tall trees and knock down nuts for other men to capitalize on.

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Do not be the squirrel.

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Find or form your true tribe and help them understand your contributions and together you will fuel each other to thrive.

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As for hot showers, and clean clothes, you can still work with nature and have both.

I think lumping all coding together isn't fair either. When I'm designing and implementing new features, I definitely get a sense of satisfaction. It feels good to solve a difficult problem and the sense of accomplishment is definitely there (at least for me). When I'm dealing with a bug ticket or doing a lot of plumbing with a story, I definitely get far more burned out and don't have the same sense of satisfaction.

There's a ton of diversity in humans. I do honestly believe that software can be just as fulfilling to some people as hunting, gathering, farming, etc that are more "natural" to humans. With that said, I definitely don't think it's for everyone. I can certainly see how people could get very little satisfaction out of programming as a career. To each their own, but I personally wouldn't trade my career in software for anything outside of a "dream" job like being a writer or standup comedian. I'm sure there's people that wouldn't trade their job programming for anything.

and deodorant

I've always wondered the same thing. I've lived a reasonably stressful life, living through much worse things than the daily monotony of office life as a software engineer. However there are some days where it truly just crushes my spirits and leaves me completely spiritually depleted. There's truly something to be said regarding the elasticity of our mental health and how large a role expectations and norms play in our mental well-being. Not to mention there may be something particularly dehumanizing about the profession of software engineering.

I've worked what people would consider horrific jobs (significant that most of those I was one of the few English people) like greenhouse work in the summer, freezer plants, 12-14 hour shifts in a factory with weekends.

Those jobs will destroy your body, a toxic office environment will destroy for want of a better word you soul.

Both are awful but the are quantitatively different.

When I started to listen to the "manager tools" podcast, I started to get a much better understanding of corporate politics and it became easier to navigate that space. Jocko Willings podcast also has some insights how to deal with complex political situations.

For your mental health I can recommend some of the modern Stoic approaches to life. Most prominent candidate here is "A guide to the good life". Good luck.

https://sivers.org/book/StoicJoy

I second this comment.

"A guide to a good life" was the first book on stoicism I read, that link was posted before and led me to it, and it really helped me a lot. I would also recommend the "Tao of Seneca" 3 PDFs that Tim Ferriss put together, the audiobooks are great because you can easily listen to a letter a day which helps me to build the habit of following stoicism.

Another book that really helped me was "The Inner Game of Tennis" https://www.amazon.com/Inner-Game-Tennis-Classic-Performance...

How true. Outside of work, I regularly find myself in low risk / high consequence situations and those are the times I feel most alive. No matter how stressful they may be.

But I can’t take the stress of political bickering. It’s crushing.

One problem is that in order to progress one’s career, a ‘management track’ becomes more and more apparent. And to nobody’s surprise, it contains a fair share of games and posturing. And to bulldoze it will get you nowhere. At most, you’ll be used as the bull dog to level the field for others.

There’s just no winning.

I think corp life is something that is extremely romanticized by public success stories and anecdotes from (occasional/incidental) winners. Everything suggests that you should be in check and control of the situation, but you are not. You are in the rat race and just reacting with your best effort. The suggestive stories contain a lot of lies or leave out the negativity. There is always the 1% that is crazy good, but we should compare to the 99% to stay sane. But they are unheard of.

Kill your idols and realize that we are the plebs that actually get shit done.

Personally I take too little risk myself. I am 40 now but I cannot imagine anymore how I can myself in a joyful working position. I have no fun in hunting new jobs, but getting out of the rat race and getting back into social life would bring way more opporturnities. Also I believe that I am not holding down my 1% potential, but the environment you are acting in.

THIS. I've been feeling this for the last 4 odd years in tech consulting. "Dreams giving way to fears". Spot on. With me also the "comfort zone" factor. Getting use to how things go and settling in. You're not alone.

There's no need to rationalize the stress, it just is stressful. "Ability to be stressed" doesn't really apply when it's an entirely different thing, with different things making you stressed.

I don't think I found corporate politics funny until I had a pretty good nest-egg of savings built up (nothing crazy, about a year of living expenses).

Your other worries, I would talk to a therapist or at least someone better than me about. A lot of ourselves flows from our jobs, and it sounds likes it's got you.

You are not alone. I feel similarly

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