Comment by _benj | Hacker News Reader

Comment by _benj | Hacker News Reader

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I recently started a project using svelte and the difference from React and Vue is so drastic for me that it isn't even funny!

Now, I know how opinionated we all are and how the best thing is what we already know, but after working with Vue and React extensively (the company I currently work for uses Vue/TS for a huge app, think over 1000+ .vue files) the particularity about svelte is that you hardly notice that you are using it!

Vue has the Vue way and React has prophet Abramov to light the way, but svelte is completely out of your way. You wanna follow MVC? go ahead, DDD? why not?

I have learned more HTML5 and CSS3 using svelte than any of the other frameworks because it encourages you to use it, because the wheel has been invented already.

Again, everybody has their opinion but for me svelte is the framework that has the least magic of all, the you can set it up without a incredibly complicated webpack config or obscure 'create-react-app' that makes it very easy to start a project but you don't really know what's happening underneath.

And it just HTML and probably 5 or 6 extra JS things like $: and a different use for export in a component.

If you are already religious about your framework, good for you, but if you are open to ideas, take a look a svelte!

How does svelte get "completely out of your way" when you have to learn its non-standard, framework-specific idioms? bind:value, #each, :catch, #await, x as y, $ prefix, slots, use: ... these all seem like reimplementations of plain JavaScript.

If you're going to go this far, why not use Marko.js and get SSR streaming built in?

You make good points but your comment doesnt appeal to me that much. I dont really care about React adding hidden boilerplate for me, as long as it is efficient enough and enables me to work on more productive things. Svelte sounds good, dont get me wrong but the abstractions are there for a reason. We as humans want to minimize complexity and mental overhead having to figure every best practise on our own. Enabling developers to do whatever they want with a framework sounds frankly like a bad idea.

But if svelte can do both, eliminate the boilerplate and at the same time minimize the cognitive burden of having to work with DOM, then im interested. But i rarely have noticed that React makes me angry the way it used to. So do i want to switch, like the stereotypical frontend hipster, to another hype framework and code the next customer app with it? I'll need a lot more convincing first

"I have learned more HTML5 and CSS3 using svelte than any of the other frameworks because it encourages you to use it, because the wheel has been invented already."

This really doesn't make any sense. Not learning how to effectively use HTML and CSS doesn't have anything to do with what frontend framework you're using.

The svelte examples kept me interested until I reached the logic section [0]. Coming from JSX/TSX svelte's template language is a huge downer for me.

https://svelte.dev/examples#if-blocks

If you really want something that will get of your way, use Web Components. They're a web standard, after all.

I read an article about them recently. I love the idea of an standard but it feels so "committee design" with a lot of good ideas but completely throwing out the window simplicity.

The older I get as a developer the more I realize that simple is not easy to accomplish. That's probably why I like svelte :)

Svelte has an option to output Web Components, so it might be a good option if you want to use them while still writing your code in a React-y "declarative UI" style.

Did not know this. That's a game changer for me in considering Svelte, thanks.

React, Vue and Svelte solve 2 big problems.

1. components (creating re-usable UI parts (i.e. components) that combine data and their rendering)

2. reactivity - re-rendering UI when data changes.

Web Components only solve one of those problems. And arguably not as well.

is it only me or a standard that includes what we have learned from UI frameworks included in the browser would be really nice?

Lit-Element solves #2

Web components are a great idea, but the current implementation sucks and is a pain to use though. Web components should look like what Svelte did!

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