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Comment by rbanffy | Hacker News Reader

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyberBunker

"In 2002, a fire broke out in the bunker from which they operated. After the fire was put out, it was discovered that besides internet hosting services, an MDMA laboratory was in operation"

Wow

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I just hope this won't harm the actual availability of MDMA much. According to my experience, an evening spent on MDMA together with wife, talking and having sex (with help of viagra - erection is miserable on MDMA without it even if you are perfectly healthy) is worth by orders of magnitude more than years of psychotherapy or vacations. It's a miracle drug if used properly (incl. taking lots of strong antioxidants before it and never taking it more often than once in some months).

It also makes my arrhythmia-prone heart work like a Swiss clockwork, it's the only substance that can stop a heart attack reliably, the substances the doctor has prescribed me (e.g. propafenone) do nothing but make my heart attacks much much more frequent.

> is worth by orders of magnitude more than years of psychotherapy or vacations.

> it's the only substance that can stop a heart attack reliably,

and this is the sort of talk that I've heard from many smart people I've personally known who have fried their brains with psychedelics which is why I will never touch any of it.

They were not smart enough then, didn't do their homework studying reddit and psychonaut wiki and never were reasoably cautious. Everything can be a poison when you take too much, too often, in wrong combinations, without proper protective measures and with ignorance to your actual physical and mental health. Indeed, many people should not be allowed to to touch any medical substances, let alone psychedelics without a non-stop doctor control yet many others can be allowed safely.

> According to my experience, an evening spent on MDMA ... is worth by orders of magnitude more than years of psychotherapy or vacations

Are you saying MDMA is a good replacement for marriage therapy if you are having problems in your marriage? Or that MDMA is (in general) one of the best recreational activities married couples can do together?

Disclaimer: not a drug user.

In my biased non-drug-using opinion, sitting around high is a poor substitute for having actual experiences with your SO. I'm trying to imagine later in life what reminiscing would be like: "Remember all those times we sat around high and had sex? yeah, that was great". vs. "Remember that Barcelona trip? Yeah, that was crazy with the pickpocket kid..."

MDMA is a stimulant so it's more likely to promote dancing around than sitting around. MDMA also suppresses social inhibitions, so you're way more likely to talk about your feelings and dreams.

I also think you're setting up quite a bad comparison here. Why is it MDMA + sitting around vs. awesome stuff at Barcelona? How about actual experiences under MDMA vs. sitting in a hotel room in Barcelona? Ultimately MDMA just gives you energy and improves your mood. [1] Whether you decide to do anything interesting or sit around is based more on your character and less about whether you're under the influence of MDMA or not.

[1] MDMA is toxic at high doses and/or without rest. A good rule of thumb would be to not do it more than every two weeks.

While MDMA is a stimulant, its effect on the serotonin receptors is considerably more pronounced than the effects on noradrenaline and dopamine also found in most other available stimulants. The increased empathy, positivity and feeling of connectedness resulting from that are much more relevant to the experience described by the GP than mere stimulation.

> MDMA is a stimulant so it's more likely to promote dancing around than sitting around.

In my case it promotes lying in a bed, having sex and confiding everything to the one I actually trust and love. I would never like go outside. The only part of me saying I should try it on a rave once is purely intellectual curiosity, I don't actually want to. I'm 99% sure the only thing I'm going to want once it hits is to be left alone with my wife in a comfortable place where no one can disturb us.

> A good rule of thumb would be to not do it more than every two weeks.

Two weeks still seems a way too short interval though, I strongly recommend to rest at least 2 months, the more - the better.

> Why is it MDMA + sitting around vs. awesome stuff at Barcelona?

Pardon my ignorance, I only framed it the same way GP did ("an evening (presumably at home) doing MDMA" vs. "vacations")

I think a better comparison would be antidepressants. A common class of antideps are called SSRI -- selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors. They have a similar mechanism to MDMA -- block the re-absorption of serotonin by neurons, so more serotonin is available for neurochemical processing.

Stimulants mainly act on the dopamine system, although MDMA might act on both systems: dopamine and serotonine.

-----

MDMA is also quite toxic in long-term usage.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3870191/

> MDMA is also quite toxic in long-term usage.

As well as ibuprofen is. Whatever a drug (in both meanings of the word) one should decide with reason when, how much and why take it. I can hardly name a medicine which won't do any harm if you take it chronically or dose too high.

Even plain serotonin, which can be kept elevated by chronic excess of tryptophan in the diet (let alone 5-HTP supplementation) is cardiotoxic.

BTW I've chosen to mention ibuprofen right because it's harmless unless you are taking it for too long. Nevertheless I believe its common alternative - paracetamol (acetaminophen) ought to be mentioned as it's plain deadly and can be considered much more dangerous (in terms of how easy it is to harm yourself severely) than MDMA.

MDMA works by dumping serotonin out of cells, not by blocking re-absorption. It's why MDMA has much stronger effects than SSRIs.

> Are you saying MDMA is a good replacement for marriage therapy if you are having problems in your marriage? Or that MDMA is (in general) one of the best recreational activities married couples can do together?

Both. And not only for marriage therapy, for personal therapy too - such a night washes away all kinds of stress, fears and sorrow in an instant.

> In my biased non-drug-using opinion, sitting around high is a poor substitute for having actual experiences with your SO.

Of course I don't mean it can be rightfully considered a sufficient replacement for travel and alike experiences yet it is better than most of the vacations happen to be in terms of how much does it recharge you psychologically. And it's not about sitting, it's about being overwhelmed (orders of magnitude stronger than any emotion I have sensed without drugs in my life, impossible to imagine without an actual experience) with unconditional love, care, sincerity, happiness, sexuality and perception of beauty and having sex so wild you probably don't ever have enough physical energy and psychological openness to do.

Many people don't feel it so great, many people get addicted (psychologically, and that usually are lonely people), yet I have never got addicted (once in 0.5-3.0 years feels enough for me and I never feel any kind of urge) and I certainly feel like this is the most important experience in my life.

If had just one free day in a year (no weekends and no vacations) but could do absolutely anything I want (including getting teleported to any place on earth) what I would do would be an MDMA trip at home with my loved one.

I have no experience of this myself, but know people who do. They describe it as feeling extremely connected, in love and energetic. I can imagine that having sex while in that state is a fun thing to do and a good bonding experience.

> "Remember all those times we sat around high and had sex? yeah, that was great"

My wife and I have great high sex memories that we reference somewhat frequently. Don’t knock it til you try it!

>I just hope this won't harm the actual availability of MDMA

The operators got popped 18 years ago, so it's pretty safe to say the supply has leveled.

> The operators got popped 18 years ago, so it's pretty safe to say the supply has leveled.

Article was published today and refers to much more recent dates.

The MDMA lab was discovered after the fire in 2002. There doesn't appear to be a drug lab involved in the most recent raid.

But I was responding to comment concerning the presence of an on-premises MDMA and ecstasy lab, which was discovered and shut down in 2002, leading to the conviction of three operators. Today's happenings are entirely cyber, according to that article.

The MDMA lab was in a similar bunker discovered in 2002 (so not quite 18 years ago), see the Wikipedia link in this thread. The article is about another bunker which may or may not have been run by the same company.

> nothing but make my heart attacks much much more frequent.

What the hell? Pardon my ignorance but how many heart attacks is too frequent? I was under the impression that one or two is pretty much all a human body can take.

My guess is they are using "heart attack" as a general term. My boss at my previous job had a genetic disease that caused heart arrhythmia's frequently. They were not life threatening if handled in time, he had an internal defibrillator(?) that would trigger a shock to correct the problem in the worst case. Most of the time he would have someone drive him to the hospital (1-2 hours away) to have it reset in a controlled environment

Eventually he made several corrections to his lifestyle that reduced the number of attacks considerably and volunteered for several corrective procedures to fix the problem (He wanted his son to be able to live without the risks) last I heard he had the defibrillator removed after a surgery at the Mayo Clinic, diet changes (no alcohol), and improvement to his physique due to regular exercise (obesity increased the chances of attacks for his condition).

My grandfather was in the double digits of heart attacks before he passed. He ended up dying of Liver cancer instead of a heart issue like we all expected.

> Pardon my ignorance but how many heart attacks is too frequent?

I normally have one in some days-months. Taking propafenone as prescribed by my cardiologist made me have them many times daily. What I mean under a heart attack is episodes of tachycardia and extrasistolia. To my surprise these never happened to me under MDMA no matter how hard and for how long I f-cked.

There's a radio host in Florida that had something like 4-6 heart attacks and 11 stents.

If you have a heart condition, mixing MDMA and Viagra is one of the riskier things you can do. Even people with healthy hearts are warned that they are putting themselves at risk of a heart attack.

>it's the only substance that can stop a heart attack reliably

I'd love to hear more details about this, do you actually take MDMA when you suspect heart trouble?

Well, whenever I have a heart trouble it (the trouble) normally stops on itself soon. But some times it takes so long that it starts feeling scary.

I often get the trouble during regular sex with no drugs. But this never ever happened during sex on MDMA. The rhythm is so perfect it reminds me of the Gattaca movie.

Some times I had the tachicardia episodes right before taking MDMA because I sort of get nervous (positively, like when you are about to meet a friend you have been separated from for years, because I look forward to such an intense love experience) but they stopped and perfect rhythm restored immediately as MDMA started to act (as I could notice).

So I feel like I should probably carry a reasonably small crystal of MDMA with me wherever I go as it can save my life once - this probably outweighs the risk of criminal prosecution. But I still am not sure, I still hesitate to have any prohibited substances with me, store them at home or anywhere.

I have also tried 6APB once - a guy has told me it's a "better MDMA" which doesn't stress the body that much. Besides I didn't really like it I have also found out (I wouldn't ever touch a drug without studying whatever information I can find about it) it is supposed to be 50 times more cardiotoxic and should never be taken together with viagra - combining these 2 drugs can make you need heart surgery after just a couple of times you take it.

I think it’s the sex itself that’s hard on the heart, not the viagra itself, unless you’re on vasodilators like nitroglycerin.

But the only people on those vasodilators will be really old, or taking them to loosen their anus.

As I understand it the risk comes from a very high heart rate, due to the combination of MDMA's stimulation and the low blood pressure caused by Viagra.

Isn’t the MDMA raising blood pressure much more though?

Not seeing how the sildenafil is contributing to a problem.

MDMA actually lowers my heart rate. My heart rate can go above 200 easily (without any drugs) and MDMA never allows this to happen.

Anecdotal much?

Let's see... that's one, lacking objectivity, and full of bias. Millions of data points to go until we get a good, solid picture of reality ;) relative to your claims

That was Sven his bunker, not xent his bunker. Also, it was a Chinese guy who rented a room that secretly brewed the mdma. ( and caused the fire.)

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