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Comment by baroffoos | Hacker News Reader

The only shocking things here are the lack of ports. Only 2 usb A and 2 usb c ports. Its basically required to use a usb hub on this device since once you plug in a proper mouse and keyboard you only have the usb c ports left

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I thought that was really odd, but it appears to have two usb c (Thunderbolt 3) on top under "Additional connections", and the graphics cards each seem to have 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports on them. So 8 USB C unless I misunderstand.

I don't think they're expecting you to plug in a "proper" keyboard and mouse since it comes with a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. Plus it appears you get another 2 Thunderbolt 3 ports on the front as well.

Which is insane.. do people really use the wireless capability of their keyboard or mouse? Especially when you can't use your freaking mouse when it's charging? Serious insanity.

Edit to add: of course I know people use those keyboards... I meant are people actually moving with them in ways that makes the wireless capability useful? Do most users not stay in a pretty close proximity the whole time?

> do people really use the wireless capability of their keyboard or mouse?

Yes. Why wouldn't you? Why do you think the downsides are?

> Especially when you can't use your freaking mouse when it's charging?

I charge it for about ten minutes every month while I'm out. It doesn't interfere with anything.

The downside is that when your peripherals' batteries go flat, or the Bluetooth stack goes tits-up, you've got no keyboard or mouse.

This happens with some regularity on the iMac I'm typing this on presently. The system has a wired (non-issue) keyboard, but the wireless Bluetooth "Magic Mouse". Every so often the mouse (or more likely, Mac) decides it wants to wedge Bluetooth and forget the mouse pairing / configuration. Powering down the mouse doesn't fix this, nor does restarting the computer itself.

If it wasn't for the old legacy wired mouse+keyboard combo from the prior iMac this largely replaces, the system would be dead in the water when this happened.

(Subsequent OS updates seem to have made mouseless operation slightly more viable, at least for recovery purposes. It's possible to log in and fire up System Preferences, which is most of the recovery process.)

Too: removing additional steps in the keyboard/mouse stack results in crisper response:

https://danluu.com/keyboard-latency/

Fewer moving parts => more reliable operation.

I hate wireless mice and keyboards.

The downside is requiring charging or batteries. I just have a hard time justifying the hassle when I have no need to make those devices wireless.

And my battery always (when I had one) died mid-day, so it forced a work break, which isn't always bad anyway

These devices use so little charge that they basically need no charging. You can literally do it once a month for a couple of minutes.

The justification is not having any messy cables on my desk, where space is a premium and mess distracts me.

The problem is you forget every time so once a month you are in the middle of doing something and you have to stop, turn your mouse upside down and then wait.

You get a "low battery" warning that pops up when it's got a day or two of charge left so it's fine.

Don't need to stop anything, just plug it in at your next lunch break or when you leave for the day.

It's just not really an issue as far as I can tell.

The only way you can run into that is if you have a three-day meth burner (so, no breaks where you can charge the mouse), ignore the three days of low battery warnings, and then use it right up until failure yet be outraged that you don't have 5min to spare (meth will do that).

Yes? I love my wireless keyboard and mouse, although they run off of AA batteries so I don't need to recharge them.

In this case, is the freedom of wireless worth the hassle+cost of batteries?

My mouse needs new batteries maybe twice a year. The keyboard I’m using lasts considerably longer (maybe once every two years? I don’t keep track, but I’ve done it maybe once or twice, if ever)

The convenience of being able to use it anywhere is minor but I don’t mind the hassle.

Personally I used to use a Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse and stopped doing so.

The reason was my mouse cursor intermittently freezing - and there being no easy way to tell the difference between lag due to high workload, the signal being blocked by obstacles (like the computer's own case), intermittent radio interference, other USB devices spamming noise onto the 5v USB supply, and flat batteries.

It's possible Apple has solved all these problems - none of them seem intractable.

They work just fine with rechargeables, 4xAAA good quality NiMH cells with a charger costs only $35, and advertise 2000+ recharge cycles. The batteries in my mouse are probably a decade old and still last months between charges.

To me, yes. Having two less cables running around is nice and less hassle. To me that is easily worth spending a few dollars twice a year for batteries.

Who hurt you, Ben?

Please don't post unsubstantive comments to HN. And please, no personal swipes.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Do people use Apple Bluetooth keyboards and mice? Yes.

Yes, most certainly. It charges enough for the whole day in like 2 minutes with Lightning fast charge. It's really not a problem.

Yes. Two double AAs each in my wireless Logitech mouse and Microsoft keyboard last years. So much better than wired.

When price and space are not an issue with this device you would think they would just throw every thing on it so it suits everyone since there is no need to compromise here.

The monitor that you’ll use with this machine is likely to have a built in USB hub (see Apple’s new display or the LG display they were previously selling).

Still it seems like quite little. Motherboards used to have 8 to 10 backside USB ports, most now only come with 6 (usually 4x USB 3.0, 2x USB 2.0), which at least for me means I have to use an external hub already.

They still sell the LG display, in fact a new version was released about a month ago.

It has a USB-A port inside the computer for plugging in a software protection dongle for Pro-level audio/video applications.

There are an additional 2 USB-C ports on top, if I'm reading it correctly. However, I agree, only 2 USB-A ports feels too few.

Looks like the aim is that you’d use Bluetooth for those. I know that isn’t what everyone wants and there is that option for corded, but the mindset seems to be for wireless.

I’m not sure how many ports are needed, though I’m sure more couldn’t hurt. This seems less about expansion externally than doing so internally. My MBP with 4 USB-C ports has one that is power + hub (HengeDock Stone) with one of the USB-A ports on it chaining to a USB-A (powered) hub. One other port is used for eGPU and the other two are untouched. Works for me, but I can completely see where this Mac Pro could end up needing a hub attachment for a lot of people.

That would be fine if Bluetooth worked...

I swear, the old IR wireless keyboards and mice were more reliable.

I’ve been using exclusively BT keyboards and mice for 10+ years ... what’s exactly wrong with them?

They always catch me by surprise when they go flat. Also about twice this year my mouse has just not connected for some reason and I have to use the laptop trackpad to fix it. This would be a big issue on a desktop. And if I have to have a cable available to charge it I might as well just have a corded mouse.

The only time I find a wireless mouse to be better is for use with my laptop because its easier to bring to meeting rooms. At home I use wired since it seems all gaming mice have awful battery life. This logitech one I use at work has 70 days which works for me but every few months I have to run around and find a cable which isn't nice to use since usb cables tend to be a lot stiffer than mice cables

I have a BT trackpad. It becomes flaky when there's large amounts of 2.4GHz WiFi traffic.

I've only had one bluetooth device, a Fitbit, that actually worked with any kind of reliability. From time to time I still have to bang it on the side of my phone to get it to pair back up.

I’m a massive fan of Fitbit devices, they work great. But the same can be said of my Plantronics BT headphones, which I’ve used daily for almost three years, same for magic keyboards, mice and touchpad of different generations. Truth to be told, any cheap device that wouldn’t work reliably (I can think of a few BT headphones in the past) I just tossed or returned when possible.

Or plug the mouse into the USB hub on the keyboard. (You did say "proper keyboard" by which, for a Mac, I assume you meant "Matias Tactile Pro")

I thought OP meant a das Keyboard.

That's a nice one too, but the Matias is intended for use with Macs and has a more Mac-like placement of the alt and super keys.

Think about this. This is a "Pro" level machine and Apples like "Because aesthetics...". Think about video workflow using external drive arrays. Many who are working with these sort of peripherals will want them plugged in all the time. So you need a docking station for your Pro level non-laptop workstation. Apple has gone way beyond thinking about their end user experience and send to only care about non-functional looks.

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