Edit: By enthusiast, I mean track/motorsport/etc enthusiast. I borrowed a Model S from a friend of mine for a few days and while I enjoyed it, it wasn't the most exciting drive, and I can't imagine it would be much good on a track. Amazing technology though.
Driving an electric tesla made all of those cars feel utterly dumb.
If you drive cross country a lot or do long track sessions, I get it, tesla won't work well, but if you don't think an enthusiast would like a tesla, give one a try.
And of course those trips are possible you'd just need to stop 1-3 times for 10-15 mins (you charge faster at lower batter % vs fill up more range once). Now if you want to go 2x your battery range, then you actually start to have a mild inconvenience with charging time.
Being forced to stop every couple of hundred miles was really not that bad. Broke up the trip nicely.
Also, the autopilot is AMAZING for long trips. Even though you have to pay attention, it is so much less exhausting than fully driving. I kinda feel like a supervisor, watching out far down the road, looking out for strange things coming up, etc. Just a very pleasant experience.
The self driving makes road trips utterly relaxing.
CURRENT Superchargers charge up to 600 miles per hour. COMPLETELY dead to COMPLETELY full is like 30 minutes. But most stops to charge will only last long enough for you to pee and grab a red bull
NEW superchargers charge up to 1000 miles per hour. Do the math. You're going to have to start jogging if you want your redbull before idle fee's kick in.
Combine that with autopilot. I took a trip in a gas rental car recently and HATED it. Tesla for roadtrips for sure.
If it works for your roadtrips, great. For mine it doesn't, and anyone telling me that I should enjoy spending an hour in some crummy location in the middle of nowhere waiting for the thing to charge (but only to 80%, or your battery will lose capacity!) are probably the same people who enjoy Elon's fart jokes.
Are you serious? That false narrative fueled by FUD has been the talking point by short-sellers since 2008 (Only Tesla and Ford survived the 2008 market crash btw).
It's now 2019 and you would think people would know any better.
I'm sure the shady silicon valley dealings are isolated to WeWork, even though Tesla is being sued for similar self-dealing. Good luck!
Revenue — $17 billion Gross Profit — $5.8 billion EBITDA — $2 billion Market Cap — $111 billion Debt — $14 billion Enterprise Value — $125 billion
Tesla
Revenue — $25B Gross Profit — $4B EBITDA — $2.33B Market Cap — $39B Debt — $14B Enterprise Value — $54B
-------------------
Uber
Revenue — $12 billion Gross Profit — $4 billion EBITDA — negative $7.6 billion Market Cap — $53 billion Debt — $6.2 billion Enterprise Value — $50.5 billion
Tesla
Revenue — $25B Gross Profit — $4B EBITDA — $2.33B Market Cap — $39B Debt — $14B Enterprise Value — $54B
I can go on but hopefully you get the point.
Tesla's Q2 Gross Profit was 900 million with a Gross profit of -170 Million.
Where did you get the 25B Gross Profit from?
I think this means that the Gross Profit was $4B, not 25. And Gross Profit is Revenue - Cost of Goods Sold [0], so they may still have had losses after R&D and expansion.
The EBITDA number of $2.33B also seems reasonable as a "last four quarters" measure here [1] (which actually lists $2.35B).
0: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/grossprofit.asp
1: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/ebitda
Do you actually know how read financials? I hope you don't actually dabble in active trading...
If you do, you should stop now and just put your hard-earned money into an index fund and call it a day.
There is clearly some dark art in accounting, but I don't think it's always because the companies are covering up bad business. It might be because they're trying to make as little taxable profit as possible.
In Fiscal Year 2018, they had positive operating cash flow of $2.1 billion. Part of the reason for the difference between accounting earnings (a loss) and actual cash flow is the huge depreciation charges ($1.9 billion) for historical capital expenditures, versus present-day cash outflows.
In that year, Tesla still spent a lot of cap-ex dollars on Model 3 capacity and battery capacity (to the tune of $2.3 billion), so overall cash flow was slightly negative - about $200 million for the year, off of $21 billion in revenue.
In the six months since then, they're reported additional positive operating cash flow: $224mm off of $10.9 billion in revenue.
This is a company experiencing 47% y/y revenue growth for the first half of the year. Yes, they're spending on cap-ex, but they are producing positive operating cash flow and their total operating+cap-ex cash flow is running a little in the red, but <1% of revenues.
And in context, they have $5 billion in cash and $10 billion in short term assets.
Tesla is not at significant financial risk.
Tesla now operates in Billions of dollars. A 10% miss in sales results in Billions in losses.
It sure was! They had some troubles delivering the very first Roadsters and Elon had to use his own money to keep the company afloat (also SpaceX) and continue making payroll.
> A 10% miss in sales results in Billions in losses.
Well that's how the market inherently works you know? Tesla vehicle sales have also been rising year-over-year so your 10% miss does not apply.
like you said in 2008 there wasn't anything there. They lose millions the whole company dies
now Tesla operates in billions of dollars. They lose billions it's still only 10%
The second one is kinda whatever. I don't actually fear they will go out of business. But neither do I have infinite confidence in their business model.
Once again, tons imply that it’s the majority. Unless you have actual verifiable data to cite, you’re just operating on opinionated data.
Have you been living under a rock? I didn't even know about the insane short interest and the countess $TSLAQ Twitter trolls until I became a Tesla owner. Which is apparently been there since the early days.
Is it BS because it does not fit your narrative? or is it a baseless claim? If so, can you please cite sources?
> Would you believe that it's martians spreading "fud" about Tesla, if Elon says so?
Is that your attempt at insulting my intelligence? I look at everything objectively... I typically stay quiet if I don't know enough on a particular topic or don't have anecdotes.
I have no interest in discussing your intelligence, but but once you start bringing out "shortseller fud" your credibility goes straight out of the window. Even claiming that Elon is behaving like a jerk because he's hiding from hit squads hired by Saudi Aramco would be both more plausible and make more sense.
Really? Because Elon said so you think I blindly believe it? What a snooty baseless statement.
What is this then? https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/tsla/short-int...
Also this: http://shortsqueeze.com/shortinterest/stock/TSLA.htm
More: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslainvestorsclub/comments/brj8zf/...
Should I go on? Let's stick to just facts, and get off your high horse.
Repeating the few tired talking points ("it's the shorts!", "you just didn't drive one", "pecking at 5 buttons in random positions on a touch screen is easier than pressing one physical button") just gives a pretty unflattering impression of Tesla's fans.
If you don't know how to read financial data, then probably. The site you linked contradicts what you've been whining about... According to it, the current short interest is currently at 29%.. By definition anything above 20% is considered to be extremely high.
Looking at your post history, it's also very clear that you have great disdain not only for Tesla but Elon. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to buy the cars of like the guy. But here you are, shitting on people who love a product.
>Repeating the few tired talking points...just gives a pretty unflattering impression of Tesla's fans.
How is this impacting your daily life? Does it bother you that much that it's making it hard for you to sleep at night? Or do you just get off on spouting anger?
I don't go around telling other people who love a certain product/brand to shut up. Just because you don't like something, others don't have to share the same opinion as you... Even more so, if it's not based on facts but emotion.
You may define "extremely high" at any level you want, but you don't get to claim that Tesla is shorted to any kind of unusual, extreme, never seen before level. None of those companies gets to claim that "it's all shorts' fault" either.
You driving a Tesla probably affects me positively (well, apart from the taxpayer fleecing angle anyway), but the complete lack of intellectual honesty on the part of Tesla supporters is... not even annoying, it's rather amusing. Where else do you get to see people seriously claiming that it is more convenient and safer to hunt and peck several buttons on a touch screen that pressing one on a door? Only in Tesla world!
Ohh.. Interesting. So not only is that you have severe anger issues, but you're also holier than thou. Geez guy, get a grip. What have you done for humanity? Look at a mirror and yourself that question.
But you know...I truly feel sorry for you. I hope you find peace, whatever pain you're suffering inside.
The combination of autopilot, infotainment, and smoother ride makes it less tiring. The charging stops tend to happen when I would want to take a break and eat anyway. Also, hotels with Tesla chargers are great.
Are you familiar with Alexander's Lodge? (https://alexanderslodge.com/) It looks like they have a couple of Tesla Destination Chargers, which typically work at around 40mph, (40 miles of range for each hour of charge) so it would work to drive there, charge for an hour or two, and have enough range to comfortably drive back to Portland in a day or two.
Of course, that doesn't mean the Model 3 is right for you in every way, but it's interesting to think through scenarios like this.
The ideal (for me anyway) would really be to have a supercharger (or other fast charging) at Sunrise, and ideally one in Packwood as well. Or forgot the whole enterprise altogether and put in a bus service like Zion has.
Of course, Rainier is only one example. Once you get into Eastern Oregon, the charging situation is even worse.
I would hope that if we get a more forward-thinking government in the next few years that we start thinking about this kind of stuff, because thinking about the carbon impact of "enjoying nature" is pretty bleak stuff. I'm actually interested in this problem enough that I've started to look at the economics of building charging stations (demand charges!)
> Driving an electric tesla made all of those cars feel utterly dumb.
Why do they feel dumb? I hear this kind of stuff but I don't get it.
Do you still do all the things you did with your old cars but now with your Tesla?
ICE just feels intolerable after.
I feel like the traffic jam stuff isn't about driving - that's about commuting.
I can't imagine being in a dead silent car all the time. It's not like they're dead silent anyway - you hear plenty of wind. I think the sound of tires squealing isn't a very appealing sound. So if that's almost all I'm ever going to hear while ripping up a road then I think I won't have as much fun.
To me the sound and vibration detract from the road. Let me hit the limits of visual stream processing without distraction, let me think when going slower. Also they waste most of the energy in gas.
Yeah - I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about that for enthusiast cars except maybe for a Viper ACR or other street legal race car...
I mean - half the appeal of getting something like a Hellcat is the sound itself.
If I had room for 2 cars, then the Tesla would be a much more attractive option.