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I wholeheartedly disagree that automotive progress, on the mechanical side, has slowed down. The ride quality, handling, fit and finish, noise & vibe, chassis rigidity, fuel economy, reliability, have all been improving. Go back 10 years, go back 10 years before that, etc., and you will see incremental improvements. Beyond that, look at how much more "stuff" comes in cars today, but for the same amount of money. That means, as we cram more and more tech in a car, the mechanical bits are getting cheaper. The same is true for motorcycles.

What is really going on, is the improvements in the mechanical design are just not as flashy.

There have been significant mechanical improvements under the hood. Dual clutch transmission enabling things like (very quick) paddle shifting has trickled into a lot of cars over the last decade. Gasoline Direct Injection has also seen rapid adoption. Hybrids were a small niche not too long ago, let alone EVs. Turbos seem a lot more common as well.

Dual-clutch transmissions have had a lot of reliability problems, and not many automakers actually use them. CVTs are probably used much more often.

GDI on the other hand has basically taken over; I doubt there's any new gasoline car sold without it now.

Hybrids haven't been doing well, outside of the Prius. EVs are getting more adoption now than hybrids. The problem with hybrids is the cost: you have a gas engine plus a big battery pack and motor, basically two powertrains in one vehicle.

Turbos however have become very, very common as everyone is downsizing engines and using turbos to get more power, while improving fuel economy.

Yeah, I cry every time I have to use some cheaper new rental car compared to my 15 year old bmw 3-series (not even m-series, just regular one with diesel engine on top of that).

Sluggish, puddy garbage of an experience compared to pure joy I can experience with my own.

I would say improvements were done to make things more cost-effective to increase margins, but not necessarily better cars per se.

Other things are with furniture I obtained with an older apartment - amazingly well built, can still hold together well after 50+ years. It was not luxurious back then, but would be definitely be luxurious now.

1. Making things more accessible is not a crime, instead it's one of the biggest enablers of our age. See Henry Ford and Ford Model T.

2. Compare apples to apples. How does a new BMW 3-Series compare to your 15 year old one? My guess is, it probably compares favorably.

Depends on what you are looking for.

In a new 3-Series you can turn the steering wheel with your index finger, there is no manual transmission, you hear fake engine noise. The 15 year old car offers a completely different driving experience and he might prefer it over the bland, comfortable new car.

I'd be curious to see the numbers, but I'm pretty sure the new one has more oomph than the old one. The comfortable aspect I get, but new BMWs have plenty of bite in them.

It went somewhat downhill with F30.

See those slim runflats? Runflats save space in the trunk for the spare, and them being slim means they are hard. So in order for the ride to be softer, the axle suspension changed, and much softer silentblocks are being used. The result is, that your drive doesn't feel like your car is sitting on rails, like E90 or E46 did, instead it is muddy and jelly.

Another disaster is the start-stop system. When warm, the needles in starter can break. Meaning, that you just went down from highway to the petrol station, refuelled, and you cannot start anymore. You are stuck there on the station.

But hey, those LED angel eyes look much cooler.

E90 came with RFT tires and at least E92/E93 lack spare wheel well in the trunk. I dunno about E90, it might be an option there like it was in E60s (but it's very rare).

They didn't use electric steering thankfully. It went downhill starting E9x though, the materials used inside wear much quicker, the suspension and road feel is somehow less than E46 and the chasing of weight savings but increasing comfort through electronics and servos means the car is heavy still but you no longer get that satisfying door or bonnet thump like you did in E39/E38/E46, which were pinnacle of BMWs engineering IMO. Cabin noise insulation is also less than pre 2005, I assume because of weight savings. The post 2005 cars are so complicated that non-enthusiast ownership is most likely a bad experience.

/335xi N54 owner

Don't forget the styling. Every car looks like the exact same boring "bar of soap with wheels" today. There's a little variation in terms of grill and light clusters, but from a distance I can no longer tell the difference between any of the top 10 sedan or coupe models.

The new cars have electronic steering, electronic gearboxes, electronic everything. That much tech essentially eliminates "road feel". Some older cars are actually much more interesting to drive, despite their flaws.

I wholeheartedly disagree with you. haha

Go back to a BMW of 1990, and it's not that much different from a new car today. Fuel injection, air bags, ABS. Internal combustion engine, exhaust, radiator, transmission. etc. etc.

Heck, even back then it was perfectly normal for a car to get better than 10L/100km (23.5mpg)

There have been incremental improvements for sure, but in all honesty it's the same thing, just tweaked a little.

Disagree with you and I have sources.

A 1990 BMW 3 Series got 18 miles a gallon and a 2019 BMW 3 series gets 30 combined. 1990 had a 5 speed and the new one has an 8 speed.[1] The power and efficiency of ICEs are night and day vs the 90s.

You could literally same the same thing about anything and it would be a huge generalization.

“It’s just a CPU/RAM/Disk/Nic with a monitor and keyboard. We had those in 1980s and it’s only incremental every since.”

[1]https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=41157&...

This is like saying if you go back 10 years, computers still had RAM, hard drives, CPUs, and GPUs so they're basically the same as today while neglecting the fact that there have been significant improvements in all of those and a modern computer would run circles around one from 2009.

There aren't many noticeable improvements in cars from one year to the next, but over the span of a full model change, you usually get fairly significant improvements in safety, fuel efficiency per horsepower, and in-cabin features.

Also note that we haven't reached maximum ICE performance yet, either. For example, Mazda is soon to release their Skyactiv-X engine, which is a sort of hybrid spark and compression ignition system with a large fuel efficiency increase over traditional engines.

Try driving one of the latest cars with all modern driver aids etc. for a few hundred miles: lane departure, blind spot warning, parking sensors, automated parking assist, distance sensors etc. Include routing around traffic congestion and a requirement to stop halfway for some unexpected reason, necessitating use of in-car navigation system.

Then try doing the same with a 1990 BMW. Unless you are being deliberately obtuse you will miss the driver aids etc., as they make the whole experience so much easier. Old cars are simply nowhere near the latest cars for safety, comfort, ease of use etc.

Anecdotally I would argue that the last 10 years have seen a more significant improvement in car technology and capability than the prior 10 years.

If we look at power alone even though EPA regulations have only gotten stricter during the same time frame if we look at the same model of car (Ford Mustang GT) we see that it has gone from 310 HP [1] to 460 HP [2] in 10 years. The same power that was delivered by the V8 which powered the Mustangs that my friends and I pined over in High School (ca. 2004) is now delivered by a compact I4 turbocharged engine which also delivers 25 MPG [3].

[1] https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15147979/2009-ford-mus... [2] https://www.caranddriver.com/ford/mustang [3] https://www.edmunds.com/ford/mustang/2019/mpg/#style=4017572...

I think you're mixing up ICE and electric, which is a mistake. You might have a point about ICE, but there's a ton of hardware improvements to come for EVs.

>Most car companies only have a handful of 'platforms' on which they build various models.

Yeah and VW just spent years creating a completely new platform for EVs. Everyone else is going to need to do that in the next decade or so as well.

> [Teslas] electric drivetrain is at point where there is more for them to gain in software than improvement of the hardware.

Tesla are continuously coming up with hardware changes. Models S and X moved to a completely new 'Raven' drivetrain just back in April.

Alongside that, they do try and find software fixes to improve the existing fleet, which I guess is what you're thinking about.

Just to add to this, ICE cars have been though all the experiments about front wheel/ rear wheel drive, front engine, rear engine, air cooled/ water cooled. Those choices are up for reevaluation, plus a few more (how many motors). Its possible that Teslas choice of motor and battery layout will look as outdated as running boards in 30 years time.

>Alongside that, they do try and find software fixes to improve the existing fleet,

I would be scared if a software engineer would make the OS to confirm that I want to brake

ABS has been under software control for years. So long as the safety-critical stuff stays off the CAN bus, everything's fine.

Brakes and steering remain mechanical

edit: mainly I was thinking of Tesla here. obv there are exceptions

> Brakes and steering remain mechanical

The Infiniti Q50 has been steer-by-wire since 2014[1], and hybrids like the Toyota Prius have been brake-by-wire since 2010.[2]

[1]: https://gizmodo.com/what-its-like-to-drive-infinitis-crazy-d... [2]: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/25563/the-audi-e-tron-brings-g...

Nope, steer-by-wire is already a thing.

The Infiniti Q50 has it, its steering wheel is not mechanically attached to the wheels.

Electronic brakeforce distribution means that when the ABS module is not working, the car will brake worse than the same car with no ABS and purely mechanical brakeforce distribution.

Better than nothing though

> Their electric drivetrain is at point where there is more for them to gain in software than improvement of the hardware.

Tesla is working on a new drivetrain for the Model S, Model X, and the Roadster 2:

https://techcrunch.com/2019/09/11/elon-musk-promises-to-take...

Archive link: http://archive.is/qc7Gi

Consider not linking to TechCrunch directly, because they make it virtually impossible to opt out of data collection.

This is wrong every time anyone has ever tried to claim it throughout human history for any piece of technology, so much so, that there must be a name for it.

I guess what I meant to say is: automotive tech is consolidating.

Saying it is slowing down was a mistake and I definitely stepped on many toes by doing so.

I love the fact that progress never stops. No matter how unimaginable it is that some piece of technology could be improved, it is not only improved upon but it will be dramatically reimagined and reinvented and iterated upon endlessly until it becomes entirely obsolete.

Even when people say “XYZ is approaching the laws of physics for how good it can get” they often turn out wrong, like with solar panels there are several theoretical limits which have been shattered by using multi-layer approaches and mirrored or stacked panels, or ways to excite 2 electrons from one photon, that ultimately push the technology forward in one dimension or another.

All I’m saying is, you’re in very good company.

Candles have not been pushed forwards much recently

How much do you think is spent on perfume / scent science annually?

Besides the core quality and variety of the scents, technology to prevent wick flare-ups, technology to alter burn rates, more economical mixtures of the wax, better composition of the jar to support cheaper shipping and less breakage.

That’s not even to mention all the new competition to the venerable candle; non-burning LED candles, plug-in oil dispensers, time release mechanisms, vaporizers, etc.

Ah man, I've been and done a [we need a name for this as mentioned by comment above]

edit: its a misjudgement about the stagnation of technology. How about "mistagnatechment"?

Ah man, I've been and done a mistagnatechment!

I can’t be the only one disappointed in this. Making cars at scale up to modern standards is really hard. Making great software is also really hard. I have serious doubts as to whether a company that does the former can have the culture, management practices, etc. to execute really well on the latter.

The fact that Apple shut down its car division suggests there may have been some issues going the other way.

I wish they’d have moved towards standardizing APIs and “controllers” throughout the automotive world and just encouraged after-market infotainment systems to fill the functionality gap. I just really don’t like that Infotainment ends up having to be a complicating factor in buying a car. It’s hard enough to pick one out that ticks all the functional boxes and feels nice to drive. But then suddenly you get cars that feel great, but neglected the interface design or had a slow UI and suddenly they’ve ruined it.

I think a standard API would be great. "Here's the things the ecu should be willing to expose": basically all the usual EC2 reader registers, as read only.

Here's a standard climate control API, which doesn't touch the ecu stack.

And here's some mixins/ flexible RPCs so vendors can add custom functionality.

Alas, this limits vendor lock in, so that's precisely why I think it's unlikely to happen.

Volvo appear to have 3 main engines and multiple versions of the same engine.

And I suspect that some ICE engines in use are still variants of pre war designs the Chevy Small Block v8 is a little newer starting mid 1950's

"suspect that some ICE engines in use are still variants of pre war designs the Chevy Small Block v8 is a little newer starting mid 1950's"

Perhaps, but I'm not sure how relevant that is. The only pieces that remain somewhat as they were would be the block, crank, and rods.

Overhead cams, variable valve timing, aluminum heads/blocks, electronic ignition, fuel injection, ECU, etc...are all newish.

If some other design (rotary engines, for example) were better and made economic sense, they would have likely won out.

Just variants though the British Leyland O series dated back to well before ww2 and lasted into the 80's if not the 90's

Which, as mentioned, was retrofitted with overhead cams, fuel injection, etc, decades after the WWII era.

We are talking about the British car industry here, BL is what the the company that made the Mini couldn't work out what profit they where making on the dam thing.

" Chevy Small Block v8 is a little newer starting mid 1950's"

...and not used since 2003. Honestly, it's probably best to view an engine family like this as a form factor, not a design. It isn't like there were any 1955 parts in a 2000 engine, but the interconnects are (mostly) the same. Generally, any 90 degree V8 with a cam in the block is going to be the 'same', designers have pretty much standardized on just a few layouts.

An invariant SBC is like saying disk drives haven't evolved if they use the same mounting points and cabling/logic standards.

Yes, you are right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volvo_engines

I thought they only produced the 2.0L 4 cylinder petrol in various configurations (turbo size, hybrid, non-hybrid). As it turns out they now also have a 3 cylinder engine.

On the other hand, look at an actual car from the 1950s.

Yes they have 4 wheels, wind screen, engine, but reliability is massively different, power is massively different, comfort, crash safety, price (for what you get).

ICE engines are not innovating, it's true, but the context is not explained in your post. ICE engines are going to be replaced by electric motors, which are far simpler to maintain and source parts for, and are inherently (due to physics) much more energy-efficient. Given climate and potential revenues for new ICE R&D drying up, you're going to see all the research dollars in 1) batteries and electric drive-train, and 2) software like autonomy and infotainment and apps.

> ICE engines are not innovating, it's true

Guess true variable valve timing and electrical turbo's and are no innovations?

if you call 1919 a recent innovation - VVT first appeared in ICE then, and made a resurgence in 1958 and again in the 1990's. electric superchargers have been around for a while as well, though not as prevalent due to the energy requirements. changes in the car electrical systems themselves have been allowing those to move forward, not innovation per se.

Both have been overtaken by events. They're not going to show up in many mainstream cars before ICE becomes obsolete. But TVVT might be very useful in applications where electric motors won't yet work. ICE airplanes, for example.

Mazda's new engine (skyactiv x) looks pretty damn innovative.