Comment by sandworm101 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by sandworm101 | Hacker News Reader

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>> US citizens, born in the us, who also never had chinese passports,

The simplistic American system of citizenship is not universal. Being born in a country does not always make one automatically a citizen of that country. So too does being born in country A not negate one's automatic citizenship in country B.

From the perspective of China, that a person was born in the US is immaterial. If they are born to Chinese parents then they are Chinese, especially when now standing inside China. This is why one should always talk to a lawyer before visiting "the old country" with kids born elsewhere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_nationality_law

Bigger horror story: First generation Iranian-Canadian family fly to Iran to introduce canadian-born grandchildren to Iranian-born grandparents. At airport for flight home. 19 years old? Male? born to Iranian parents? standing inside Iran? Have you done your military service?

Whether one can "disavow" a citizenship is a big question. Citizenship is not a hat. You cannot just move to Canada, marry a Canadian, and suddenly expect not to owe US taxes ... or not be drafted into a US war.

Sounds like there's not a lot of difference between "citizen" and "subject". The claims of ownership across generations for births that occurred elsewhere are the most astonishing part of this for me.

Then don't look into who can acquire Israeli citizenship. They are open to "all Jewish persons", both people born to jewish mothers and converts "who are not a member of another religion". So citizenship, or not, can turn on the specifics of religious faith and ritual. (Isreal is not alone in this, they are just the most western-leaning nation for whom religious dogma is used in determining citizenship.)

You've really got an axe to grind, don't you?

Israel GRANTS citizenship to people of Jewish ancestry. It doesn't claim ownership of them like China is doing in this scenario.

I think you're confusing the word "can" and "must". A Jew can become an Israeli citizen. The issue here is that many of these people are not choosing to be China's citizens and yet are considered such.

I did not use the word "can" or "must". Those are not my words.

I said Isreal was "open to" certain people, which is an accurate description of the policy. Where citizenship suitability is at issue, such as an asylum claim or immigration/visa application, religious factors then come into play. I made no mention of Israel claiming control or forcing citizenship on anyone.

So it's not like a "claim of ownership" to people and not relevant to the comment you replied to?

Did these people enter China with a visa? Many Chinese parents sign a document to give up foreign citizenship for their children on entrance into China, so their children don't need a visa, and can enjoy benefits like health care and free education in China. That's how China can claim their Chinese citizenship.

Happened to a friend of mine though it was Syria in that case(before the war, 2008~9). Guy was 20 and had never set foot in the country, wasn't really aware this was even a thing. Managed to get out of it after being detained for a few days through connections and lobbying but it was scary AF. Their military service is 2 years long...

Happened to a friend of mine in Austria, of all places. I can't remember exactly how he got out, but I think he might have left the airport and crossed the border to Hungary.

The point is not what the US believes citizenship to be. It is what rights do people have and what is the response of a civilized government to those rights?

A civilized government will protect the rights of its citizens. An uncivilized one believes that the citizens somehow belong to it and must do its bidding and be dependent upon it.

The CCP does not have the best interests of these people in mind - it only has its own interests in mind and is using these people as pawns.

>> An uncivilized one believes that the citizens somehow belong to it and must do its biddin

Those in glass houses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_Service_System

"All male U.S. citizens and male immigrant non-citizens, who are between the ages of 18 and 25 are required by law to have registered within 30 days of their 18th birthdays"

Registration! Scary! It's an index-sized paper form you fill out. That's it.

The draft isn't coming back and there has been no instance of it coming back in any capacity in over 50 years. So no glass houses here, thanks.

Also even if drafted after registration it was avoidable. You can be a conscientious objector. You can leave the country bc. in the us we don't check your Id when you leave, unlike China. You could go to Canada. And we don't draft people anymore but we do register them. There's a tiny tinge of comparison but it's not the same as holding your kids hostage if you are on the political outs.

During the Vietnam war, you could "go to Canada" basically only because Pierre Trudeau instructed the border guard to allow Americans who seemed like they might be draft dodgers to immigrate illegally. No guarantees there will be another arrangement like that next time.

Doesn't being a CO sometimes result in prison? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector

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