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Comment by fiblye | Hacker News Reader

I was applying to a job with a large game studio. The interview was going pretty well, I'd thought. We talked a bit about how we'd implement certain gameplay elements, the content of the projects we've worked on, and overall it just seemed good and we all seemed to get along pretty well.

Then they asked me how old I was. Their response to my age was, "Oh... maybe it's a little late then. You're not too old, but... kind of cutting it close by just a bit."

I was 26.

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I think the rejection might actually be good for you - they certainly were looking for a young, naive, and enthusiastic person - to exploit to death their desire to work in game industry, and pay them peanuts.

This sounds familiar

In the United States, literally nobody should be asking your age during a job interview.

In the UK (and I suspect all of the EU?) it’s specifically illegal to discriminate on age (https://www.gov.uk/employer-preventing-discrimination), and when I was last interviewing there HR would remove any birthdates that came in on CVs before passing them over to the interviewers.

In Germany, it's customary to include a picture of yourself in your CV.

...I think you can figure out your chances, if you don't include one.

EDIT: I'm saying this to show how the German (who are European) employers will try to circumvent such age discriminating laws. You get it taught in school, in vocational training, at jobless centers, self-help books and the Internet, that the picture must be of "high-quality", in a sense already arguing past the necessity of why they'd even require one in the first place. I personally do not agree with this practice, though it seems, that more and more employees are becoming aware of this and employers are starting to respect that too.

Here in the US, we had a candidate include a picture of himself... wearing a captain hat and striking a dramatic pose. He said he put it there to filter out the wrong kind of companies. We hired him.

Fortunately, I've got lots of pictures from when I was much younger. ;-)

Here in the states, it's my understanding that the picture is for identifying your skin color, and is frowned upon for that reason.

In Spain it's also common.

I don't have one on mine because I'm from the UK and it just feels weird.

Nowadays they can just look on LinkedIn or Facebook or whatever anyway so it feels kind of pointless.

Why is this comment being downvoted? Is it factually incorrect?

I wish it were. Google "lebenslauf muster" in image search to see it in full effect.

> There are a few must-have personal details every Lebenslauf should include which you might not have on your original CV: a photo, your marital status and place of birth.

https://www.thelocal.de/20130131/47649

This is the same in Sweden fwiw. I was agast when CVs started passing my desk with seemly random self-portraits on them.

Why the hell do I care what you look like?

True (about caring about looks); but now most people on linked in happily provide a photo of themselves, though admittedly I know many haven’t changed (updated) their photos since they uploaded a photogenic photo they’ve always used.

Well, at least in Sweden my photo-less CV hasn’t caused any problems. My lack of a LinkedIn account has attracted a couple of comments though.

For that exact reason I'm rejecting everybody that puts a picture on a CV in Germany.

Well that's just silly. If it's the norm, why penalise people who're just doing it the way they think everyone else will.

Better to specify in your job ad that you won't accept CV's with pics.

...I guess he's looking for people out-of-the-norm and willing/able to stand up to their convictions?

I wouldn't put a picture, but when I had to write some CVs here, I caved in and put a photo. I used to think it was a fault of mine to be so far off the norm, and I tried really hard to fit in. It just didn't work out for me. Today, I think I know that this is what can make me valuable.

EDIT: ...but it is kind of a play of statistics vs. faith, and I think that one shouldn't fault someone, if they can't pull the faith together for it. A comment on my parent comment tells about someone applying in the US with a comical picture. That person was able to afford applying in such a way, but when you really need a job, because money or family, would you really take that risk/leap of faith? EDIT2: ...or that could also be signalling, that someone is high-risk taker, which could also be an attribute an employer is looking for.

So... You throw 90% of CVs away because... you do?

It's illegal, but also hard to prove. Even without birth dates, you can make a reasonable estimate based on work experience and graduation date. And when the candidate turns out to be a bit grayer than you expected, that can, even subconsciously, affect your decision.

Are the interviewers blindfolded too?

NO, but at least the older candidate can get their proverbial foot in the door before being screened out. Of course, the CV/resume is likely long enough to infer age within a decade or so. It's a hard problem to solve.

That's the law in a lot of countries, including here, but I've been asked it anyway. What are you going to do about it, beyond secretly recording your interviews then suing?

For the sake of your time and your sanity you should do neither of those things. You should file a complaint with the appropriate state labor body, particularly in a US state like CA where the agencies are well funded. The chance of it benefiting you is virtually nil, but the chance of it causing pain for the employer - hopefully forcing them to change their ways - is non-zero.

Outside the US I have no knowledge of at what level those protections may/may not be enforced (but hopefully somewhere).

I don't live in the US and age discrimination here certainly isn't uncommon. I didn't expect it to be so obvious, though.

They can ask what year you graduated from college which is a proxy for age.

I'm 25 work at a relatively large game studio. My boss and the whole chain up (3 people) are all in their late 40s or older. I've learned so much from them as well as the senior engineers that I sit next to.

After my experience here, a low average age for an engineering team is a red flag. You're better off for not having been offered or taking that job.

This is blatantly illegal and if you really wanted to you could win a lawsuit against them (there are many reasons not to start legal action, but you could). I worked for a large game studio and we had a mandatory training session about protected classes because of things like this.

It is not illegal to discriminate against 26 year olds, the law explicitly states that you are only protected when you are 40 or older. (Assuming this is USA)

In all fairness, are you sure there was no playful sarcasm behind that?

Even if it is sarcasm, it’s still illegal

Sounds like an easy lawsuit if they directly asked about your age and then implied it was relevant to their hiring decision.

Not in the US. The Age Discrimination In Employment Act specifically only prohibits age discrimination against workers who are 40 or older. Discriminating against someone not over 40 is perfectly legal.

More generally, discrimination in employment is legal by default. It becomes illegal only when a specific law gives protection for a specific characteristic. The laws are much narrower than many people think. For example, there are no laws disallowing discrimination for or against smokers, or Yankee fans, or D&D players.

This is an example where age saved you from a bad experience. They wanted you naive and be able to shape you the way thet wanted to and pay you next to nothing.

I was working in a small startup in Germany. I think our boss was around 40. He didn't want developer older than 38 :D We were just above 30 at that time.

Were you applying for a junior position? Not saying you were not worth hiring, just that they didn't see it. To me it sounds more like they needed an excuse not to hire you. People here are complaining about being discriminated at age 40 or 50 and I don't see a point in introducing an angle that people are discriminated for being too old at age 26.

Your age was not the real reason.

I think it was since after changing it I got the job.

I have a very hard time believing this happened. 26?

As someone in games. I believe it.

How is that possible?

they weren't looking for developer, they we looking for a slave monkey that can be trained and worked to death.

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