Hacker News Reader

Comment by warent | Hacker News Reader

> Private prison companies used to view California as one of their fastest-growing markets.

This is such a bizarre and twisted sentence to hear without a hint of irony. It's like dream/nightmare logic except in real life. In 100 years private prisons are going to be a hideous stain on our history and this is such a huge step in the right direction that it really makes me proud to be living in California and supporting the state with my tax dollars.

View on HN

Isn't it? Companies that probably lobby for stricter and longer sentences, looking at a populated state as a "market," with caged human beings as their product. It's the most absurd concept to me, and it's even more disgusting when it's put in such an innocent manner. "Private prison companies used to view California as one of their fastest-growing markets." It just gets more disgusting the more you look into it, and the statistics around incarceration in the US.

It is not just that the states are paying them to house convicts (or people accused of a crime), they can even use these people to do jobs for basically no wage. These companies are in the business of slave labor.

Just to throw it out there: the idea isn't absurd; it's evil.

You're completely right on that. Absolutely evil.

Will we still have private companies making money off of public prisons by offering different services? Will there still be individuals earning a paycheck by working at prisons? Both of these groups will have similar incentives as companies running private prisons.

Well done California. Hopefully this is a step towards abolishing the prison system.

I've entertained the idea of abolishing prisons in my head, but I can't imagine what we would do as an alternative. Suggestions?

I’ve heard ideas that prisons could be voluntary in a completely free society. First, a lot of people who have gone to prison for victimless crimes (using and/or selling drugs for instance) would no longer go to prison. Second, people who have committed violent crimes may choose to go to prison to “work off their debt” and show willingness to atone for their crimes. One could imagine that many employers, businesses and people generally would ostracize a person that would not be willing to go to prison, but on the other hand would be more willing to again accept that individual if he did go to prison.

Voluntary prisons? HN can be seriously devoid of reality sometimes

It's a wonderful libertarian fantasy and it's really tugging at my heart strings.

Have you seen the Norwegian system - https://www.businessinsider.com.au/why-norways-prison-system...

If it was nonviolent crime, then island where convicted can live with shops, houses, internet, trains and parks and local elected administration and cctv, but cannot go back to the rest of the world.

But if it is a serious violent crime, it should still be prison. Comfortable like in Europe or better, but preventing convicted from doing harm to others.

It should not be a punishment. It should be just an isolation. Separation of bad people from good people.

Yet more accurate language: bad-behaving people from good-behaving people. I realize some would say it‘s the same thing, but I always like to make the distinction.

Brb, I'm gonna go commit a bunch of non-violent crimes so that I can live on this island paradise.

You can go to that island voluntarily without committing any crime.

Are you describing Australia?

Warning: It's full of criminals!

On the flip side, they'd probably be more fun to hang out with.

A lot of the times we would just do nothing. Marijuana possession doesn't need punishment for example.

Otherwise there are a tonne of options from before prison became the norm. Community service, restitution, fines, public shaming, exile, corporal punishment, capital punishment. Some more acceptable today than others.

We still need a viable alternative that is both a deterrent and allows for rehabilitation and reintegration. I think things like prison, corporal punishment, exile, etc., are good deterrents but they're horrible at reintegration which is why prisons have such a high recidivation rates. On the other hand, community service isn't a high enough deterrent and flat fines disproportionally affect poor people.

  > I think things like prison, corporal punishment, exile, etc., are good deterrents but they're horrible at reintegration

Not sure I understand. Corporal punishment doesn't have a problem with re-integration because no one is removed from society, and the whole point of exile is you will never be re-integrated into society. Only prison has to deal with the problem of how to re-integrate people.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com