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Comment by dragontamer | Hacker News Reader

> It's a little surprising that even with a two-speed Gearbox the Taycan has neither better range nor low range 0-60 acceleration than the Tesla P100D (which has the same size battery).

0-60 times probably don't matter on the track. Its probably more important to optimize the 60 to 120mph time, which is where the torque of a (single gear) electric motor begins to taper off. I bet that Taycan has superior 60-to-120mph times than any gearbox-free design, which would lead to superior track performance. Especially on a track as big as Nurburgring.

Even on highway driving, 0-60 times kind of don't matter as much as 30-60 times. (Aka: merging into a highway). The only reason to push 0-60 times is for drag-racing really.

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> 0-60 times probably don't matter on the track.

Yes, in the Taycan's Nürburgring-Nordschleife run, for example, the speed was mostly above 100kph: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m31EgQkswg

On a track, the lateral G force the car can maintain traction at and the deceleration time matter a lot too.

> The only reason to push 0-60 times is for drag-racing really.

Wat? Most people care about accelerating from a standstill to the average legal speed limits.

0-60 captures that perfectly. It's incredibly relevant to the general public's driving patterns.

When, years ago, I had a performance car 0-60 was only useful for obtaining shock from first time passengers. Though 20-50 was far more reliable in getting surprised involuntary curses from the passenger seat, as was invoking wheelspin at 70. :) The fact it had a ludicrous 0-60 had plenty of kids revving engines trying to encourage a traffic light drag race. Usually this would have me driving off like an ageing vicar.

What was useful in real world driving was 40+ top gear roll on acceleration, or 70+ on the track, as was the enormous amount of engine braking. 0-60 really didn't matter other than as indirect indicator of capability. The fun, and performance was elsewhere.

People rarely do a full power 0-60 with a car that can do it under 5 seconds. More likely they go from 30-60 or similar.

I do it quite often, but it really depends on location I think.

In more rural locations you'll commonly have a 90 degree turn onto a 60-70mph road.

I probably wouldn't if it were 3s 0-60 though.

The tire wear for repeated 3s 0-60 must be enormous.

At 4s it's not too bad. I mean, I don't have anything to compare to, but we're still talking tens of thousands of miles per replacement.

Obviously that's not like, a full throttle acceleration and slowdown constantly, just merges.

With modern traction control and AWD not really

This. Porsche's traction control is fantastic.

I drive a supercharged sports car that does 0-60 in 2.9 and do it every couple of days on a rural road near me, adrenaline is great! This is definitely an outlier though.. I get the impression from reading the forum for my car that most people don't push it near its limit regularly.

the car, tell me.

When a car does it silently without being overtly antisocial they do it far more often.

Leaving all the other cars next to you in the dust is quite antisocial behavior actually.

For the most part, I want to accelerate with everyone else when that green light goes off (except for Trucks: I wanna leave Trucks in the dust and get away from them ASAP). The 30mph to 60mph acceleration of off-ramp into freeway cruising speed however, is pretty important. A lot of things are going on when I merge onto a freeway, so I'd like to make sure I can accelerate in an adequate amount of time: to the point where I've (occasionally) downshift to 2nd, even in standard traffic, to get to 60mph asap.

Serious question: how is this antisocial behavior? I understand wanting to stick with the flow of traffic when you're part of the pack, but if you're in front of the pack, what's the advantage (to anyone) of hanging back?

> what's the advantage (to anyone) of hanging back?

It might just be me, but driving at night on rural roads is much more pleasant when you’re behind a car that’s travelling at the same speed and route. Having someone follow is much worse, with headlight glare being irritating.

> with headlight glare being irritating.

Of topic, but I wish we'd switch to polarized headlights.

1. By accelerating dramatically off the line, you're telling the other cars that they are driving too slowly.

2. Alternatively: you may be sending a signal that you want to drag-race with someone. And nobody likes it when drag-racers start playing on public roads. Keep that stuff off the streets and on the track only.

Now sure, if the cars next to me are driving slowly, I'll leave them in the dust. But its not something I'll do on every green-light, and its something I'd do only if they're going exceptionally slowly (ex: driving 40mph in a 60mph zone)

Those are the two signals I perceive whenever someone accelerates strongly off of a green light: either #1, or #2, depending on context. There's certainly a time to signal #1, but its a relatively rare event.

If you take someone accelerating quickly from a light as a signal that you're driving too slowly, you probably drive too slowly. I don't think its a signal at all - and who really cares if it is?

To me, all it says is you enjoy your fast car. I don't see any reason to take offense, and if you're ahead of me, it means you're not in my way.

1. By accelerating dramatically off the line, you're telling the other cars that they are driving too slowly.

Which they often are. No fuel or pollution is saved when you creep away from a light so slowly that it keeps several cars behind you from making it through until the next cycle.

Since when is the priority to not offend the drivers around you?

We must live in completely different worlds.

My comment re: antisocial was more in reference to noise pollution and disturbing residents at home where they have a reasonable expectation of peace and quiet.

> Since when is the priority to not offend the drivers around you?

Caring about others is pretty much rule #1 about living in a polite society. People who don't care about others are called sociopaths, literally anti-social behavior.

Prioritizing safety on the streets, making sure you send clear signals with your actions, etc. etc. Its all part of driving and being a good citizen on the road. Part of that is absolutely understanding how others perceive your driving behaviors: if you're driving too slow, too quick, if your high-beams are too bright, etc. etc.

Its also about understanding why motorcycles lane split (safety + efficiency), and other behaviors. And a lot of it is cultural: different areas have different cultures so its not a one-size fit all approach either.

if you accelerate quickly to the legal limit and others take it as an invitation to drive recklessly, that sounds an awful lot like their own problem.

I agree with your other comments about driving in traffic. avoiding large speed differentials when you are surrounded by other cars is very much your responsibility.

> avoiding large speed differentials

That would be (or should be) the entire point of a posted speed limit, go with the flow. There should also be a lower speed limit.

On roads I would bet many crashes occur due to the difference in speed between vehicles. Speeding motorcycles, slow trucks, fast sports cars, all of which would be around vehicles of moderate speed.

The reaction time for the faster vehicle driver is different than the the drivers other slow vehicles. Also consider not all drivers have the same experience. Those differences are dangerous.

That would be (or should be) the entire point of a posted speed limit, go with the flow. There should also be a lower speed limit.

You can't have both. Suggest doing some Googling for a topic called the "85th percentile rule."

> Leaving all the other cars next to you in the dust is quite antisocial behavior actually.

As a motorcycle rider I disagree, it's the safest option for us.

I get that not everyone is pleased about it, though.

Even on the bike you don’t accelerate full out. You are already way ahead with half power and full power acceleration from 0 is quite risky when you get wheel spin.

> As a motorcycle rider I disagree, it's the safest option for us.

Things are different if you're in a 4000+lb electric vehicle. The bigger the vehicle, the more polite it is to stick with the rest of traffic (or even let people pass you).

According to you.

From a safety perspective, in stop and go traffic, the heavier the vehicle the more I want it traveling in front of me not behind me. Unless I'm certain I can completely escape its field of influence like when splitting lanes on a motorcycle.

> Leaving all the other cars next to you in the dust is quite antisocial behavior actually

Honest question: can you expand on that? Assuming it's a safe thing to do, why is it antisocial?

The word anti-social has a serious clinical psychological definition I'm not sure if that's what you intended mean.

I understand it has a casual use like the word "theory" does, but this one used casually seems more unfortunate given the nasty nature of the clinical definition.

Sometimes engineers are referred to as a geek, while the next moment referred to also as "anti-social" (remember before billionaires not as many people thought it was acceptable?). Who knows, as a group quirky maybe? but it seems unsubstantiated to suggest murderers are overrepresented in the population.

That's ridiculous. The more cars you drive near, the more likely there is to be a collision. I take off from lights to get away from the pack, and I drive away from the packs on the highway. If there's nobody near you, you can't hit them.

The #1 factor in collisions is actually speed differential.

If you are driving at a dramatically different speed than everyone else, you increase the chance of collision. I'm not saying drive like grandma: I'm saying drive the same speed as everyone else, to minimize the risk of collision. If you're too slow, you are as dangerous as going too quickly.

Someone going 40 mph in a 60mph zone is just as dangerous as someone going 80 mph in a 60mph area. Speed differential is what causes accidents. If everyone is driving the same speed, its relatively difficult to actually hit anyone (as long as you stay out of people's blindspots). That's why downshifting to 3rd (or even 2nd) to reach 60mph ASAP while getting onto a highway is important to me.

Speed differential when driving in traffic, OP said to get away from traffic. There is no differential when there is no car near you

A rare road indeed where all other traffic is behind you...

Being first at a red light is not very rare.

And even if there are cars adjacent, you can scoot away just fine with a speed differential under 10mph.

Motorcycles do this too, and the drawback is that you are much more likely to run into someone who's just missing the red light in the other direction. And that will be a high-speed differential collision, not anything like contacting the people who are going in the same direction as you.

This is more of a risk in places where red light running is endemic. Sadly here in Auckland is rapidly becoming one of those places.

John Carmack among others agrees with you about Tesla acceleration not being antisocial. Here he is talking about it (timestamp in link takes you to the right part of the video):

https://youtu.be/Ua-ikbZVofc?t=674

I'd wager the vast majority of driver's have never really floored it, and especially from standstill. People care about getting from point A to point B safely and conveniently, and flooring it to get from 0-60 as fast as possible is ridiculously unsafe, has no utility (except very rarely when merging), and is terrible for both your car, your tires, and your fuel economy.

This is not a car for the general public, it is an incredibly niche, specially designed machine should conform to the public's driving patterns. On top of that, it STILL has an insanely fast 0-60 time.

Granted, I could be missing the point you're making. Apologies if that's the case.

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