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Comment by Yaggo | Hacker News Reader

I came to same conclusion as an European (Finn).

As my Prius is approaching ten years age, I'm going to retire it and get new primary car. I calculated that new Corolla Hybrid with best trim + gas for 5 years will cost roughly the same as SR+ with electricity (inc. 2 KEUR rebate).

Btw, currently I pay 300 EUR per month for gas (~1.5 per litre), while SR+ monthly loan payment starts from 450 EUR (with 5 KEUR down payment). Electricity is relatively cheap (and green!) in Finland, also insurancing a Tesla has no premium. It starts to look like a bargain!

We drive a lot, almost 50,000 km per year. Of course there are lot variables, but I'm pretty sure that gas and ICE car taxation won't get any cheaper. Not to forget that SR+ is definitely more fun daily driver.

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So 750 Euro for the car and electricity. Wouldnt it be cheaper to use other means of transportation?

I guess thats not even the end of the line since there probably are other costs like taxes, insurance and repairs?

I use several types of transportation every day (Bikes, Scooters, Mopeds, Buses, Trains, Cabs) and I pay less then 300 Euro a month for it all. And its much less hassle since I can just start wherever I am and never have to search for a parking space, walk to my car or deal with any maintenance.

750 euro? I think you misread. Electricity for SR+ would cost less than 100 EUR per month, 300 EUR is my current gas cost for Prius.

I live in countryside, so there is no practical alternative transport options available. Moved from a city 5 years ago and have been happy. Family-sized housing in Helsinki costs way too much and public transportation works poorly (IMO). Of course, in the end it comes down to personal preference of life style.

Speaking as a fellow Finn, yes the cost of gas/diesel for those who drive a lot (= everyone living outside of bicycle/running range from work) is insane. I don't understand why the negative attitude towards electric in Finland when it is astoundingly expensive to drive with ICEs. We have a fully working inexpensive charging network spanning all inter-city roads and city centers. If you do a little bit of homework FREE charging can be found.

Currently drive a plugin which has allowed me to drive with electric only to and from work and will absolutely never buy a ICE again, it is just too expensive to drive them here.

To what extent do you have variable kWh rates based on time of day in Finland? Assuming nearly full implementation of smart metering. One of the interesting features of a Tesla is that if you use it for daily commuting, the car can be set to charge overnight between 10pm and 5am, during the hours of lowest kWh rates.

In the Nordic electricity market the hourly kWh price is negotiated one day in advance, i.e. I can check today what will be the kWh price for each hour tomorrow. I've chosen a pricing model market price + fixed margin, so in theory it gives me lot of room for optimizing the bill via home automation etc.

Typically the night time rate is much lower, but the price of energy itself is only 1/3rd of the whole bill, the grid company taking another 1/3 and the rest is for taxes, so that smoothes out the price difference.

I'm planning to install solar panels in the near future. The payback time is 7-15 years depending on the amount of DIY work.

Actual price of electricity is negligible, around 4-6 cent/kWh. There is really very little wiggle room here. The rest is tax and electricity transfer.

You can choose to buy your electricity from anyone but you have to pay the local monopoly for the transfer. Electric transfer/infrastructure has been sold abroad by our very forward thinking smart politicians and thus that money is never seen again.

Both cost double that of electricity or more. So the total is around 13-17c/kWh. Smart metering saves only a few cents per kWh. These two rates have been going up really fast and will lead to a solar/wind revolution in short order.

> Actual price of electricity is negligible, around 4-6 cent/kWh. There is really very little wiggle room here.

That's the average energy price, and what typically pay if you have fixed pricing per kWh, but there is lot of variance hourly/seasonally. Sometimes in the night time the price of energy can be almost nothing (e.g. hydro power reverses overfilling), but of course you still have to pay for grid company + taxes. To take advantage of that, you need a "market price" plan with your energy company. E.g. I try to store the cheap night-time energy into water boiler + floor heating.

An electric car is very good match for cheap nigh-time energy, as you typically charge overnight.

In finland are gas prices relatively stable, or do they increase over time?

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