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Comment by buildzr | Hacker News Reader

> As the mechanism is unknown, it’s unclear what the actual danger is. Is it some byproduct of the nicotine cartidges, or THC ones? Is it the vapor itself? Is it only at certain temperatures or concentrations? Is it directly affecting the lungs or entering the bloodstream? No one knows yet — all they’ve seen is an sudden uptick in respiratory or pulmonary issues where the sufferer also uses vaping products.

We've seen a few studies suggesting certain flavoring agents may cause significant problems, has this been investigated as a possible cause?

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I also remember reading about the heat of the coils causing "nano" copper particles to be released/inhaled, might be a contributing factor.

Most modern vaping devices use coils made of 316 grade stainless steel, which has no copper content. Unless you're doing something really stupid, the release of metal particles should be within OSHA limits by several orders of magnitude.

> Most modern vaping devices use coils made of 316 grade stainless steel

No they don't.

SS316 is an option, but not the most common. NI200 is still by far the most common coil material.

i have to disagree. you're both wrong. the most common in all coils is Kanthal A1. If your building your own coils then NI200 is quite popular atm, but most tank and coil systems use Kanthal.

Coils aren’t made of copper afaik, they are made out of steel or any other metal with high resistance.

I vape - I buy only high quality liquids from a reputable manufacturer who extensively test all of their recipes. I find my lung function is 100x better than when I smoked.

I did, however, once buy a THC liquid, from a “reputable” dark web dealer. It was bloody awful - found myself retching and hacking for days after a few small tokes, and it destroyed both the coil and the tank - sticky residue, carbon, bleurgh.

So... given that the other symptoms mentioned are vomiting and diarrhoea, I think this is going to transpire to be dodgy THC liquids, as this also sounds like Cannabis Hyperemesis Syndrome.

Let's not confuse reputable with anything healthy, which is the danger of some of your statements, both quoted and unquoted. The largest tobacco manufacturers were reputable, but that didn't stop them from killing people.

This is a pertinent point for any idle readers.

Ex-smoker. The bad tobacco was so much worse, but it didn’t make the good tobacco healthy. It was just smoother and tasted better. It’s no “healthier”.

Interesting coincidence... Michigan shut down an MMJ testing facility within the last couple of weeks for reporting irregularities. https://www.michigan.gov/lara/0,4601,7-154-11472-505032--,00...

Yeah... there is currently a global issue with lab results. A client of mine (large multinational healthcare products manufacturer) recently sent the same part to five different labs owned by the same very large lab test provider, around the globe, and got radically different results. The Chinese ones passed everything, as did the US ones - the EU ones failed the part on RoHS, as did their own tests on it - BPA over the allowed threshold.

So, yeah. Everything with a big pinch of salt.

Me and my girlfriend exclusively vape vampire vape juices, how do we go about researching if the manufacturer is reputable and test all their recipes?

Buy from a European supplier - testing is mandatory and all e-cigarette products must be registered with the national healthcare regulator prior to sale. It's not an ironclad guarantee of safety, but we have an effective regulatory regime.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/e-cigarettes-regulations-for-con...

The other thing to do is check out their safety data sheet - means an independent lab has audited them.

Vampire Vape, that the GP mentioned, have theirs here:

https://www.vampirevape.co.uk/media/safety-data/attraction-0...

You read their website and pray they don't lie...

The only good way is somehow lucking out and finding an independent researcher that tests them without financial incentive from the company. Otherwise typically the findings will always be on favor because companies request preliminary data and pull funding to continue research if it looks bad so it doesn't get published

If it's the Vampire Vapes I'm thinking of, they host all their safety sheets, as part of TPD compliance.

https://www.vampirevape.co.uk/safety-data

Another vector of harm to consider —

Keep in mind that “vapor” is used to disguise that, in all cases whether nicotine or pot or etc, people are heating up a substance to its smoke point and inhaling that smoke. They use “vapor” because it sounds like “water vapor” - which is harmless - but it’s definitely not that.

Marijuana cartridges use marijuana oil or MCT oil as a base, for example. Nicotine uses glycol or other substances.

We have very little data on consuming glycol and/or MCT oil smoke. It’s possible that it clogs up the lungs in a way that takes hours to heal per inhalation, and so we’re simply seeing smoke inhalation deaths as we would from an oil factory burning for weeks or something.

(We have limited data on marijuana extract smoke - cold-processed oil is a new-ish innovation, compared to resin which is high in impurities and not easy to consume in significant quantities like marijuana oil apparently is.)

> Keep in mind that “vapor” is used to disguise that, in all cases whether nicotine or pot or etc, people are heating up a substance to its smoke point and inhaling that smoke. They use “vapor” because it sounds like “water vapor” - which is harmless - but it’s definitely not that.

This is not true. It's producing an aerosol, partially by condensation of vapor produced by heating the glycerine and propylene glycol mixture to its boiling point.

It isn't combusting, at least not when everything is working the way that it should, and so is not properly a "smoke".

There are also “coils” that vibrate to create vapour which happens at room temperature.

This is interesting. Do you know what this technology is called?

I also wonder whether it's more efficient in terms of battery use.

>Do you know what this technology is called?

Ultrasonic atomization. It's used widely in manufacturing for applying thin-film coatings, because it provides a very consistent and controllable spray of very fine droplets. The technology has been applied to vaping by Usonicig, but it's not hugely popular - most people prefer warm vapour.

It's an ultrasonic vaporizer. Below is a link talking about it.

https://youtu.be/aKhPj7uFD0Y

wow, this is the first i’ve heard of that for vapes. any recommended reading?

I'm not a vape guy, but as far as I'm aware no combustion reaction is occurring, essentially it's boiling the substance at a far lower temperature than it would burn.

Now, whether glycol and such are good things to inhale is another question but I haven't seen any studies pointing to significant issues with these directly, so I'm hesitant to jump the the conclusion suggested here.

The conclusion is “we should consider whether propylene glycol inhalation can lead to disorders”, not “we know whether it does”.

Propylene glycol has been used in asthma inhalers and nebulizers since the 1950s.

So, probably safe...

> Propylene glycol has been used in asthma inhalers

Do you have evidence for that claim? Because as an asthmatic, I've never encountered an inhaler that contained PG. Apparently it can be used in nebulisers, but unlike inhalers and e-cigs, a nebuliser isn't being used every day.

My understanding is that unless the vape pen is malfunctioning, it should be burning anything.

Your heating it to the point it boils and creates vapor. Not to point it burns.

This is incorrect. The solvent is boiled, not burned.

Corrections below, thanks all! Glad this will be considered by a few people that replied, even if I fail at the precise sciences of it :(

From another source on a vaping story, for those who want to follow the thread of concern even regardless of my bad understanding:

> One exam, though, picked up something unusual — evidence of abnormal immune cells in his lungs — generally associated with a rare, potentially deadly pneumonia seen in older people who accidentally inhale droplets from oil-based laxatives like mineral oil.