Comment by throwaway_law | Hacker News Reader

Comment by throwaway_law | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

Here are the MOAB 240 (2017 results) I guess not a single runner is elite in your minds eye. You can also check the 2018 results and see if any live up to your standards as she holds the overall race/course record.

https://ultrasignup.com/results_event.aspx?did=43733#id14104...

>Courtney had a great race at Western States last year and dominated the women's field, but she was 12th OA and almost 3 hours slower than the OA winner.

And one year she failed to complete that race altogether. She holds multiple records, had has won multiple races overall, but certainly I'm not saying every time she races she wins.

List of races she won (beat the men):

Mueller Marathon

Behind the Rocks Ultra

Continental Divide Trail Run (50k)

Coldwater Ruble (52 miles)

Moab 240 (238 miles)

The Bear Chase (50 miles)

Riverbank one day (24 hour run)

Desert Solstice (100 Miles)

Javelina Jundred (100k)

FANS (24 hour run)

The Chatfield Ultra Race (100k)

Tommyknowcker 12 hor & The mine shaft Half (100kk)

Chase the Moon (12 hours)

You tell me which of those races had an elite men's field and who those men were. Or give me odds that a woman will be top 5 at UTMB.

Obviously its impossible, what is being said is if Courtney won, then the men's field was not elite. Courtney won those races, so by definition you won't find any of the men meet you definition of elite.

I did give you the names of the races she won, you could look at the fields and confirm of the hundreds/thousands of runners she never beat an elite make runner.

Here is a question, since your the authority how many ultra runners are elite and are they all male?

You're putting words in my mouth. Let's say elite men are top 5 overall at UTMB; that's why I asked you to give me odds for women making it there.

But please prove me wrong by answering my question directly. Which race had an elite field of men that she beat. Not just one runner, because by that definition I have beaten sub 2:05 marathoners who DNF-ed.

What am I a Vegas odds maker?

Again I can't prove a elite field of men in the races she won, because I don't know you definition. Only you know your definition of elite ultra runners, so why don't you look at the fields instead of having me guess?

I can tell you plenty of the runners are ranked in the top 10% for their group (age/sex) overall, but something tells me that being a top 10% ultra runner in your group doesn't qualify one as Elite under your definition.

You have a much more generous definition of elite. To me elite is somebody who has a chance to win in any race regardless of who else shows up to compete. By that definition Courtney is an elite woman, but I do not believe that she would have a chance to win UTMB overall, or Moab 240 if all the best men showed up.

>To me elite is somebody who has a chance to win in any race regardless of who else shows up to compete.

Yes, my definition is more generous. But it also comes from the industry itself, in my experience marathons/races generally will have "Elite runner" applications/registrations. Like regular registrations/corrals the Elite Runner registrations are time based, and generally waive %'s of the race fee based on prior qualified race times. These are elite runner's in my mind, but in no way do most of them stand a chance of winning any given race on any given day.

And yes sort of by default I would place the top 10 finishers in a 238 mile race like Moab in the Elite category, they all appear to be top 20% of their group in overall Ultra rankings, so they are not the best for sure and its fine we disagree on their status of elite. I certainly wouldn't (and not saying you are, but others are) diminishing Courtney's accomplishments by saying she won niche races against untrained runners...I think its fair to say untrained runners don't run 50/100/238 mile races.

There is no elite field in ultras, only in big road races. Look at the PR-s for the elite guys here: https://www.baa.org/john-hancock-announces-2019-boston-marat... . The slowest one has a 2:13 which is below women's world record and 6 minutes faster than any of the elite women.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com