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Comment by human20190310 | Hacker News Reader

human20190310

The article indicates $74,000 is the average in Toronto, which is roughly half of what it is in San Francisco. That's a shocking difference.

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The really shocking thing to me is that nobody's camping outside the Google/Amazon/Microsoft/Ubisoft offices in Canada with offers of 50% pay increases.

These companies vetted these employees for free, seems like a pure arbitrage opportunity to me.

canada seems to be lagging in terms of new startups. Also google/amazon etc employees doesn't meant they are necessarily great. Canada needs startups and startups need all round devs, and large companies usually need specialised workers.

I don't really know what that $74k average number is based on, but it's nowhere near accurate for the large companies they've mentioned in Toronto (which is what matters since the article is about them).

I work for a tech company in Toronto and no single engineer in the company would make less than that (maybe some recent grads). I also know from my network that Uber, Amazon, Google, etc have been raising the average salary in Toronto.

I advise anyone in Canadian tech to move to the states if they can. The rise in pay is so enormous it overcomes all objections. Move from Canada to Austin and you get higher pay, affordable housing because of zoning is not controlled by a rent-seeking gerontocracy, and far less taxes, too. Also, Canada has many indirect taxes in the form of crony capitalism. Grocery chains and phone providers have extremely cushy relationships with regulators there, increasing their ability to extract rents. Health insurance is not as big a deal as everyone says, at least for people making tech salaries.

Except you are now living in the States and all that comes with it. Gun violence + gun mentality, racism, ridiculous politics, and more. It's not enough of a pay raise to make me consider the move. I'd consider doing remote work with a US based company, taking the occasional trip down, but never moving there. If you make 6 figure in Canada, those extra "taxes" and "costs" aren't really an issue any more as they are only a few hundred bucks.

Maybe I'm just fed up with the US's bullshit to ever want to deal with them, but I know lots of people who feel the same. If you are a fresh grad, it's almost impossible to not go however, which sucks for us here, but that's just how it is. Not all decisions are based on big piles of money. I also live in Waterloo and have an awesome house, but if you are stuck in GTA or Vancouver, then good luck I guess no matter what you do if you want real housing. Prices here have also gone up a lot, but still affordable with a dev job.

You're being absurd. The 'gun mentality' don't affect life for almost anybody who's not a hobbyist. I know many Canadians in the US, none of them think that the US has more racism than Canada - many will tell you that we're just better at being aware of it.

ok well maybe I just don't feel comfortable walking around where everyone has a gun and could kill me for any reason possible or by accident, even if it's very unlikely. I'll take my risk management strategy to heart and you take yours. Also, what's with the constant mass shootings in the US? Doesn't seem to be a problem anywhere else and it doesn't seem to be a downward trend, so again, risk management.

There are idiots everywhere, I just prefer to be surrounded by idiots without guns than idiots with.

You should relax. People can 'kill you for any reason' anywhere, and yet they don't.

From the outside it probably looks like gun violence and racism and ridiculous politics are the worst things about living in the US, but when I moved I found that the IRS's byzantine tax policy and the inherent difficulty of moving countries were worse.

I'm a Canadian in the GTA who turned down numerous offers to move to the US for jobs.

Because this is my home. It's where my family and friends are. I have a sometimes misled sense of pride, etc. The same sorts of reasons most Americans wouldn't want to move to Canada for a job. I mean, I'd be more likely to move to Japan or France or something for a job because it's different enough to make it novel.

But let's be real -- there are great areas all over the US. They have far more weather and geographical diversity. There are great cities like Portland, Austin, etc. It isn't all crime[1] or violence. And we're probably exposed to US politics more here than the average American (given Canada's inferiority complex and our profound focus on the US). And I've never had a problem with Canadian healthcare, but if you're taking a job in the US you'll probably be on a great plan that gets you great service there as well.

[1] - Especially given that property crime tends to be much worse in most areas of Canada, and gun crime in the major cities is as bad as many American cities.

> gun crime in the major cities is as bad as many American cities

Is it, though? I can't remember the last time I heard of a gun crime in Vancouver, but that's anecdotal, of course.

Having just done what you suggested (Calgary -> SF), healthcare _is_ that big of a deal. When you are from the states, you honestly can’t know how massive it is to never have to worry about paying for healthcare. It is truly transformative.

> North America’s fourth-largest city is also cheaper: Its computer engineers and programmers earn salaries that are on average $71,000 a year lower than their counterparts in San Francisco

It's $71,000 lower than engineering salaries in SF according to the article

There appears to be a lot fewer very high paying jobs too. I have known some people who have made $250+, but it (anecdotally) seems very rare and was usually related to oil and gas money that is disappearing lately

Especially given that Toronto is not that much cheaper than SF, Seattle or Vancouver. It's certainly not half as cheap as SF.

Where's it say that? All I saw in it is a stat from Hiring Inc. saying they're $71K lower than in SF.

It's in a graphical chart on the left-hand side of the page, titled "Northern Lights". It is not findable as text.

The article fails to mention the exchange rate from USD to CAD. No employee in Canada is paid in American dollars, that would be ridiculous The Canadian dollars is .75 to the USD. Hence the much lower pay.

It is shocking as that puts the salary way below that of London/UK and close to senior dev salaries in est europe. Hence my serious question wether way will go up, if not in the short term at least medium term.

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