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Comment by cmrdporcupine | Hacker News Reader

I'd like to see a movement towards growing crops back east and midwest where soils are rich and water more plentiful. It doesn't seem to me like the central valley is a long term sustainable place to be concentrating agricultural production.

California's seemingly ideal growing conditions are only ideal when imported irrigation water is cheap and plentiful. There's whole swathes of the east and midwest that have been abandoned to cheap cash crop farming that could be growing nuts, market vegetables, fruits, etc. without the same water fears.

Consumers would simply have to get used to different varieties -- more cold hardy and fungal resistant varieties of stone fruits and grapes, hazelnuts instead of almonds, etc.

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Iowa is quite nearly 100% covered with farms (talk about habitat destruction) and much of it was wetlands with the water table all the way up at the surface -- think very large very shallow lake. Water is drained from the soil instead of irrigated.

The problem is the crops grown are nearly all used for animal feed, fuel production, and feedstock for industrial food (corn syrup, starch, etc, soybean oil, and others)

It's hard to connect the farmed crops to food you'd like to eat. It's done because federal policies, technologies, economics and tradition and there isn't a great motivation to change.

I'm going to inherit the family farm duties sooner or later and the concept of growing feed for ethanol plants and industrial livestock isn't exactly appealing.

I'm from Iowa and remarked to a friend how nice Wisconsin is, with rolling hills and trees. Iowa is absolutely filled with agriculture.

I've thought about what it does to animals and plants. With vast cropland, how could a limited set of funds have the greatest impact? Could we eliminate some gravel roads and replace them with trees and plants and make an appreciable difference? Could we eliminate some roads and make bigger fields (less no-value added time turning equipment around and driving between fields) and add a reserve along the remaining roads? What plants would survive alright if there is overspray from the fields?

If I recall right, the guy who started fortnite has been buying large swaths of land and returning them to nature in West Virginia.

I hope some day we all stop eating meat and dairy. Then we won’t waste all this farmland just to feed livestock.

Then we will just be using the same land to grow bulk cereals and pulses in an effort to provide us with the same nutrition. Animals eat things we can't and turn it into nutrient dense food.

California ag started late enough to avoid the concentrations of anthropogenic arsenic found in the Southeast US. Lead arsenate and calcium arsenate were promoted at the time of the Dust Bowl, which didn't affect CA. as much as the midwest. Places with a heritage of cotton used arsenic for even longer. Anthropogenic arsenic is inorganic. It does not decompose, so it bioaccumulates in plants. Some varieties can be bred for arsenic resistance. Some plants collect more arsenic than others.

What's the viability of breeding plants to concentrate as much arsenic as possible, and then spending several growing seasons extracting it from fields, collecting the plants, and disposing of them?

I wondered the same. A quick Google turned up the fact, "Oh, yeah, that's been investigated and there ARE options."

Chinese brake fern (Pteris vittata) seems to be a candidate: https://www.newsweek.com/plant-arsenic-chemical-highly-toxic...

Plants as Useful Vectors to Reduce Environmental Toxic Arsenic Contenthttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3913097/

I do have to wonder if we would find ourselves inviting invasive species with such an exercise. But on the other hand, the goal is to "grow'em, burn'em, and carefully dispose of the ash" so maybe that concern is manageable.

Fungus have been looked as one option for this. They are excellent bioaccumulators.

Or perhaps genetically modified fungus that emits a signature colorant proportional to its uptake of a contaminant. This would be a cheap way to screen a large area for levels of contamination.

California irrigation faces its own problems: https://psmag.com/environment/cleaning-up-californias-three-...

Both selenium and arsenic are considered trace elements. Selenium much more so; most of the world's diet is selenium-poor. But selenium supplements are useful in counteractive arsenic poisoning: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23800687

I remember someone was trying to breed a species of rice to not bioaccumulate arsenic, specifically to plant in former cotton fields.

Wait, people were promoting arsenic?

Arsenic trioxide was widely used as a herbicide. A typical application would be something like 1 pound/1000 sq feet. ( 50kg/hectare for the rest of planet earth).

So dosing a field will take about as big a sack as you can carry and 250mg will kill you.

Extra fun fact: I got the application rate numbers from an article about controlling weeds on golf courses.

When people have a feeling about herbicides being dangerous… this is the kind of herbicide that caused it.

Extra bonus fun fact: My father's grandmother used to make up a mixture of arsenic trioxide and mercury to paint around the windows to keep bugs out of the house.

Arsenic was used for damn near everything from agriculture to manufacturing until about 100 years ago. It's a very effective pesticide (it kills everything!) and there weren't a whole lot of other options back then that actually worked.

https://www.chelseagreen.com/2009/the-tangled-history-of-ars...

Copper arsenate was banned in pressure treated lumber in the US effective January 2004.

(edit: I had thought this was in WA only, but wikipedia says national)

Lead arsenate was sprayed all over apples. Up until the 70s in some places.

We're really smart apes, we are.

According to wiki

> Alternatives [to lead arsenate] were found to be less effective or more toxic to plants and animals, until 1947 when DDT was found.

Pretty interesting huh!

Don't forget the lovely green wallpaper that was arsenic based.

Same people who sold you cocaine.

Better soak all that rice coming out of Arkansas.

I'm east and the soil is almost 100% sand with no nutrients but at least we have water

Hydroponics greenhouses sound like a viable answer.

California produces almost entirely specialty crops. Not saying it wouldn’t happen, but it would require a huge shift in types of produce available to consumers if CA ag changed.

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