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Comment by jewelry | Hacker News Reader

As a Chinese lived in mainland China for 20 years, gotta say all you guys are overestimating the authoritarian.

Nah. There are literally historical and current events you’re not allowed to talk about in China without being arrested and charged with a crime or even disappeared. That’s not an overestimation, that’s the very definition of authoritarian.

As someone who just came from China after living there for nine months, I think the better way to put it is this: you can talk about whatever you want, but if you make an effort to organize, initiate, or participate in a public discussion concerning a taboo topic, then you are putting yourself at risk.

It's the appearance of an organizing that is really taboo. Of course please take my opinion with a grain of salt. I am a foreigner who was there less than a year.

A young girl (10? 12?) was a famous streamer than sung a line from the national anthem in a sing-songy way and was jailed for 'making fun of the nation anthem'. You can see the exact moment she realizes she messed up.

advchina/serpentza/laowhy86 are the canaries in the coalmine atm.

Well, let's find out. Is this a true statement or not?

China has no freedom of speech, the press, religion, or assembly.

Also, is there a firewall that prevents you from accessing portions of the internet your government doesn't want you to see?

(I've never been to China but this is what seems to be reported.)

> ... overestimating the authoritarian.

Sure:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps

For perspective, there are 2.3 million African Americans in prison.

Absolutely a travesty, but still you're engaging in false equivalency. The difference in being jailed with or without some legal process is significant. Study up at https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/freedom-world-... and acknowledge that the US's score of 86/100 is a far cry from Canada's 99, but worlds ahead of China's 14.

Freedom House is a US charity though. Looking at any other report will still show China much lower in the ranking but the US also not really looking as good as the land of freedom might see itself.

How about a look at Reporters without borders, which ranks press freedom:

US #48 (behind Botswana, Child and Romania)

China #177 (of 180, so only ahead of Eritrea, NK and Turkmenistan)

Or this HRW report will be an interestjng read: https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2019/country-chapters/unite...

After 350 years of economic and social terrorism, I would say it's fair to say most of the AA people in jail did not have a fair legal process, they couldn't afford it even if you ignore the combination of systemic/overt racism.

We have to remember there are two justice systems in this country and re-introducing slavery through the prison industrial complex was something we deliberately did without good reason.... not in response to dangerous extremism like in China.

There are 2.3 million Americans in prison.

For perspective, you can critique the US government(s) (state/federal) and say that this is a bad thing, and you won't disappear. I doubt you can critique the Chinese government about the re-education camps.

Here's a major presidential candidate on the topic:

* https://berniesanders.com/issues/criminal-justice-reform/

> These camps are reportedly operated outside of the legal system; many Uyghurs have been interned without trial and no charges have been levied against them.

This is a fundamental difference (and yes, America has detained people indefinitely without trial, but I would condemn that _too_, and they are a small minority of prisoners).

Furthermore, there are ~2.3 million _people_ in prison, of which 40% are black (39% white, 19% Hispanic).

https://www.wsj.com/articles/jailed-for-a-text-chinas-censor...

WeChat has authoritarian roots.

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