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Comment by majidazimi | Hacker News Reader

Where does this "Europe is awesome place to live" come from?

I live in Germany, I got ear wax, the doctor waiting line was more than a week, so I developed tinnitus problem in a couple of days because of the wax (I don't use any headphone, I don't work in any noisy place so they don't have any effect). Insurance didn't cover medicine cost, so I paid it in cash while I was a student. Then the doctor said, it's too late and now I have to deal with a permanent tinnitus disorder for rest of my life.

Do you see how awesome social security is in Europe? #StopSpreadingBullshit

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Having your ear wax not removed quickly will not cause permanent tinnitus, that's ridiculous. If tinnitus is caused by ear wax it will be gone after removal.

It is the removal process that can cause permanent tinnitus[1], like ear irrigation done incorrectly, which would be your doctor's fault.

I have 2 different permanent tinnitus caused by improper ear irrigation (one by a nurse and one by myself), one is low freq thumping and one is like crickets. I use some kind of ear wax softener daily hoping I won't develop blockages again and risk more tinnitus.

1. https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/2ca6/54e2df68d4e3509cdafbc4...

The whistle noise started two days before cleaning it. After cleaning it started getting worse. Nowadays, it's variable. It goes up and down irregularly.

It's not perfect, but still seems better than in a system were a broken arm can literally ruin you unless you have a good job.

just don't pay the bill.

That's the solution. It won't ruin your life. It may mess up your credit for a few years, but how many people in the situation have both good credit and will actually use it in the next few years? Hell, having bad credit may protect them from "predatory lending" we also hear about constantly.

Remember kids, if some areshole sends you a bill for hundreds of thousands of dollars that has little legal recourse for you to actually pay it. Don't.

just... don't... pay... the... bill...

"It may mess up your credit for a few years, but how many people in the situation have both good credit and will actually use it in the next few years?"

Clarification: Going bankrupt will be a mark on one's credit for the next 7 or 10 years. It may prevent someone from acquiring necessary loans to get a car, housing, opening a small business, and other things people consider to be advancing their life or career.

I'm sorry for your experience, but individual anecdotes are still not data.

Absolutely. What I meant is, shit happens all the time and you have to be prepared for that. Medication cost didn't cause me an issue, because I save my money quite aggressively.

Being poor (by global standards) in a developed country heavily depends on person's lifestyle and decisions.

We have long wait times here in the U.S. too, at least in my experience. Two months for my last specialist, three weeks for a gp. This isn't a competition, so please don't take it that way; what I'm saying is that, despite your anecdote, I'm desperate for your healthcare (at least I think I am). I'm really curious if there are situations there, akin to those faced by the uninsured here, where corners are cut to save costs and the patient is left abandoned with a partial diagnosis / misdiagnosis.

Yes.

French hospitals are underfunded and desesperate right now. They cut corners everytime they can, often on the back of nurses and mediacl assistants (who are wholly underpaid). Doctors are in an okay position, but some specialties lack specialists (especially in position where French medical education is really good, or very lucrative: i.e. surgery and anesthesia). We are far from a great medical country. I would happily give another 100€ per month to resolve those issue (and i do somehow with not asking for rembursment after consultations as i can easely afford those).

More than a week for a doctor? It is possible in large city, especially if you don't want (or can't afford) to pay a premium (at least in Paris). Never had any troubles in Munich, Liege, Lille or Rennes though.

The premiums are not really fair for the people living in those cities, but with the square meter price, it is understandable that cost increase for medecine too.

But if you think you have an emergency (and no money), you can still get to a hospital (at least in France). University hospitals are great too (if you have one nearby), because if your affliction is weird, you'll get some of the best doctors available to help you. Clermont-Ferrand dental surgery speciality saved two of my teeth when i was 16 and my mother on minimal income for the grand total of 0€. Any private dentist would not have bothered and have removed those two and replaced then with false ones (the teeth were stuck into the jaw bones if you want details), for probably much more.

Uh, I don't mind if getting to the doctor or dentist for a non-urgent problem takes a week or so. I also don't mind if you have to pay a nominal fee (we've got a flat fee of about 20€ for a doctors visit, regardless of what treatment you receive).

The important bit is when you have an acute accident, you'll get treated immediately (without checking your insurance first!) or develop life-threatening illness like cancer, you get good care without going bankrupt.

In this regard, most European countries are vastly better than the United States.

It's also important to know that Europe is not a single country and the health care varies a lot country by country. I have heard horror stories about the health care in some southern European countries that might be a lot worse than the US.

If you were poor in the US you'd have had the same result, but with a doctor's bill on top.

I wasn't rich either. I saved enough to survive the incident. save people, save!

I did save. I had a significant savings beyond what most Americans do. My life was still ruined. I am sorry for your experience and deeply understand how pain and medical issues can affect you, but what you are doing in my case is victim blaming. None of this was in any way my fault. It wasn't because I didn't prepare. I was more prepared than most. You cannot reasonably prepare fully for this. The costs are immense and you have less means and more needs. I didn't ever say Europe was a utopia. I said the system in most places it far better than the US. Even paying the private system in most places is FAR cheaper. You are rightly upset you suffered...suffering sucks. That suffering would have been worse in the USA and it's not fair to say "just prepare".

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