Community contribuited packages should be declared "install at own risk" like in archlinux aur.
All this is already solved. But people want to reinvent the wheel and ride the user generated content train.
Practically speaking, shifting trust from a large, anonymous group of people, to a small group of people who are known and trusted by the community is a pretty good solution.
They “only” manage ~18K packages, but those 18K do a lot more than NPM:
https://people.debian.org/~corsac/
perhaps number of packages is the wrong metric.
I'm not convinced this is a model that can work for programming libraries.
eg write some code in a JS framework, then go off and do something for 18 months. Come back and there's a very good chance the entire framework has been obsoleted and replaced, perhaps even several times.
In JS land that's "Doh, well of course!".
In sane ecosystems (eg not Ruby), not so much. ;)
I seen this in _any_ environment that has a relatively active package management system of its own (e.g., Ruby, Perl, and Python included)—and it _still_ happens in some Java cases. The only _sane_ thing to do is to completely ignore the OS package management system and to package your applications as relocatable install packages complete with all dependencies you need, modulo the minimal OS stuff required.
Packages being months behind the latest version is a feature, not a bug — it means things will only be randomly changing under your feet rarely, with the exception of security fixes.
I struggle to convince devs and management about this in the past few years. Everyone's gone crazy about latest and greatest set of features with no respect for stability, maintainability, etc.
If things are "randomly changing" by updates, that means the upstream package isn't following semantic versioning practices, and more importantly, isn't preserving backwards compatibility with their releases. That's a mark of bad software development practices, and it also isn't solved by an arbitrary wait period: that just means months after the breaking change is done, you finally notice and complain, but most maintainers are going to (rightfully) ignore you by that point.
I'd make the same argument in general software quality: with new features, often come new bugs, so by delaying, you can delay introduction of those bugs. However, bugs are easier to fix the sooner they're found, so again, quick turn-around improves things, even if it sometimes causes short-term pain.
This is one thing where NPM is definitely miles ahead of APT. With APT, you get a single version of each package, so it's all or nothing. With NPM, you can specify `1.1.x` so even if a version 1.2 or 2.0 comes out, you're on the stable old one. The closest thing that seems to happen with linux packaging is on a major version (with backwards-incompatible changes) a new package name is created with a "2" on the end, to signal this incompatibility -- how is that anything but a hacky workaround to not having proper versioning support?
It's definitely not used as often as in npm packages, but you can use =version after your package name to apt install a particular version, or apt pinning for more complex setups.
In the C++ world, I can’t imagine a situation where you would need to depend on, for example, libjpg while developing, but not need to read JPEG files in prod/end-user-space.
Check out Electron or React starter apps for an example, their boilerplates should have dozens of examples.
The problem is keeping your dependency tree reasonable. Even pulling in a couple of packages might lead to hundreds of dependencies. And even if you have the sense not to use an external package for something as simple as left-padding a string, someone somewhere in that dependency tree might not feel the same way. And that's all it takes to bring a chunk of the web down.
All of these problems of course are due to JS not having a mature ecosystem or standard library. People shouldn't need to reinvent the wheel every hour, nor should they be pulling in modules less than a dozen or two lines of code. That, and the constant misguided financial incentive to deploy ever more complex functionality over http are what lead to this aggressive push for cutting edge tools.
- 31K source packages
- which build into 136K binary packages
- consisting of 1.2 billion lines of code
[1] https://sources.debian.org/stats/
[2] https://packages.debian.org/unstable/allpackages?format=txt....
If one of the community failed to secure its package from malicious people, these people at debian are not going to be able to stop it.
Thus, those packages are still guarded by a huge community.
It is not like npm or crates.io where you can just upload whatever random code you like and people will start picking it up immediately.
But it’s not foolproof, sure, I agree with that.
I merely said that Debian packages are built, uploaded, and vended by Debian package maintainers, not by upstream. Whether that makes them more trustworthy or less is a different question.
why?
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianDeveloper#Advocating_a_Debian_...
There is none for npm.
I don't know much about the "NPM community," but judging from the bits I do hear, I'm not sure they have done the same. OTOH, I understand that as an outsider that only pay attention when shit blows up, I'm only seeing the bad parts.
But thanks for telling me anyways ;)
This can be construed as a good or a bad thing.
All other "modern" (where "modern" is "last 20 years") package managers have zero curation.
Perl, Python, Ruby, Go, Rust, Dart, JavaScript.
You say: "if they had curation, they would be better".
I say: "if they had curation, they would have lost to a competitor that doesn't have curation".
People care about having more packages much more than abstract fears of security or quality of those packages.
At their own peril.
You're partially right. Some people haven't yet learned (eg the hard way, or whatever) that quality does matter.
Hopefully most of those people will learn to appreciate and demand quality over time, instead of the current anything-goes-approach.
In the meantime, things like this npm package example will continue to give npm/javascript black eyes (repeatedly) and help make that happen. :)
Apt is about 20 years old, and the most famous apt package repos (I.e., the Ubuntu project) is much younger than that.