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Comment by samirm | Hacker News Reader

But how would they know who to ticket? Just because your car is moving, doesn't mean you're the one driving it. If they cannot prove who was operating the vehicle at the time of infraction, they cannot issue a ticket.

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In Alberta, the fine is for owning a speeding car, kind of like a parking ticket. The rationale is that you are responsible for who you lend the car to. It is a civil rather than criminal penalty, so no license points, but no getting out of it either. Rental car companies challenged it and lost (though you can be sure they will pass the cost on to you).

But the real rationale is: let’s blame someone that’s easy to blame instead of figuring out who’s actually responsible.

Germany has photo-radar, but can only issue a ticket to the driver.

Possibly that’s related to some of their history, I’m not sure.

Though they do issue voluntary “caution” money tickets to the owner at a discount to make it go away without identifying the driver.

I believe in the Netherlands they will send a ticket to the owner. The owner then has to pay the ticket or provide the info of the driver.

Same here in Australia.

That's not true, red light cameras have no problem issuing fines to the vehicle owner.

In many places red light cameras ticket the owner of the vehicle as a parking violation,(presumably for having you car in the intersection when the light was red?) whereas typically the driver of the vehicle is ticketed by the officer for a moving violation like speeding or running a light. My memory on this is pretty old though, laws may have changed and it may be location dependent.

Which is why they're a terrible idea, usually implemented out of sheer greed for passive income with no actual police work.

Not to mention the increase in accidents, which it'd be ironic were there a class action lawsuit holding ATS, Redflex and the other companies responsible.

Yes, but they take a picture of the car.

What if you car is being toed by a speeding truck (or on a trailer) ?

Then you could dispute the ticket, and presumably the fact that it's being towed would be visible in the photo.

There is usually a picture of the car along with a time and date of the incident. You would just simply appeal it and say that the car is clearly on a trailer and that the truck pulling the trailer is at fault.

Yes they do. In many jurisdictions, if you are willing to perjure yourself (or are innocent), you can sign an affidavit that you were not driving the vehicle. Then it is up to the authorities to press the case based on quality of the video evidence.

IMO it's a silly hack. The fine should go the vehicle owner, who is responsible for pursuing recompense from the person the lent the car to (or file a theft report, or whatever).

Yeah, in our city a few years ago, a lawsuit was brought that even with camera pictures/video, it can't be proven the vehicle owner was driving the car and so all the red light camera tickets in process were thrown out and the cameras were deactivated. So definitely depends on jurisdiction.

May I ask what city you live in?

The fine goes to the vehicle owner not the driver. This is why if you get fined by an automated speed camera or red light camera on a rental car, the rental company pay the fine and charge it back to you - with admin fees.

If it's a physical ticket on the car (parking, speeding, etc), you can pay it before the rental company ever hears of it and avoid those admin fees.

That doesn't seem to matter. In DC we have speed cameras everywhere and it doesn't matter whether your face is visible in a photo, the ticket will be issued to the plate and must be paid by the owner regardless of who was driving the car.

It's not a traffic offense, at least. While still annoying, I'll take that any day over the alternative. $70 civil penalty vs $150 fine + $70 court costs + increased insurance premiums.

As a side note, it does feel like my due process rights are being violated when I have to deal with this. You can't go in front of a judge, but rather can go argue the ticket in some local government office.

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