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Comment by bayindirh | Hacker News Reader

Taptic Engine is a very good click emulator. The touchpad of newer MacBooks and tactile feedbacks of newer iPhones are just amazing.

On the other side, nothing can emulate a good (even membrane) keyboard, because typing's most important sensory feedback is not touch or sound, but finger travel.

I'm a programmer and use a variety of keyboards. I have an 2014 MacBook Pro, a lowish end membrane keyboard at office and a Logitech G710+ with CherryMX Brown switches.

The winner is Cherry MX, hands down, but MacBook has a very nice tactile travel feel, so I can write way faster for a membrane keyboard.

The promise of butterfly keyboard was sharp tactile feed to enable faster writing speeds, but it proved to be too fragile as far as I can see. I've never used one for a long time, so I cannot comment on it with any authority.

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It's pretty hard to go back to membrane or scissor switches when one has gotten used to a mechanical keyboard.

When I bough the small Magic Keyboard 2 for use with my midi controller(I needed a bluetooth keyboard), it took me weeks to adjust. It felt like banging on a flat table for a while.

The Anne Pro 2 is mechanical and has bluetooth, maybe an alternative for you?

I have the original Anne Pro actually :)

The problem is that I badly need a separate escape key(Vim user) and function keys. Switching the keyboard layout is just too much of a hassle.

The Vortex Tab 75 will fit my needs. Shame that it wasn't release months ago.

I'll never understand the infatuation with mechanical kb's. I am old enough to be trained on them, but the low-travel scissor types are so much nicer to type and don't give you RSI.

Same here. It's an unpopular opinion because you lose nerd cred but I remember the din of a cube farm full of people banging away on mechanical keyboards, and I have no desire to repeat the experience in an open plan office. I'm glad the things are expensive.

I my eye nobody uses nerd cred for not liking mechanical keyboards. Its noise footprint is bigger than a good membrane keyboard in most circumstances, but it provides other benefits. It's a matter of trade-off. If one size have fit to all of us, we were be still using buckling spring keyboards. :)

They're infinitely more customizable, by not being (as) mass-produced, for one. I prefer keyswitches that have a lower weight and more travel than membrane switches, but if you legitimately prefer low-travel switches, those certainly exist in the mechanical realm too.

The RSI point is significantly more controversial. Practically any type of laptop keyboard or non-split desktop keyboard puts your arms and wrists at unnatural angles and encourages poor posture. I'm not going to argue that my non-split mechanical keyboard is any better for my health than a membrane keyboard, but mechanical keyboards give you enough customization that you can choose between hundreds of split designs or build your own to suit your specific tastes.

Besides, I've noticed that mechanical keyboard users rarely use the entire length of their switch travel; the entire point of tactile or clicky switches is to be able to actuate them without bottoming out. Typing on a MacBook keyboard (even the nicer scissor-switch kinds) feels almost like typing on a glass screen because you're forced to have each keystroke bottom out on the hard surface underneath.

I'll just throw in one more anecdote, but I've never felt any pain whatsoever and used laptop keyboards my whole life (30 now), whereas whenever I've tried mechanical, and I've tried at least 5 now, I always revert within a few days due to discomfort/soreness. Even with a large wrist rest your hands are doing so much more work moving around.

I just don't find the idea that split keyboards are more "natural" to be true either. I've never felt a lack of comfort with the standard setup. Are there any well-done studies published on this?

Funnily enough, I've used Microsoft Ergonomic 4000 for a decade, and its split design forced me to learn touch typing because I've always tried to cross that gap and landed in the split.

Also after getting used to it, it was one of the most reliable and comfortable keyboards that I've ever used. However, I've eventually wore it down and its keys started to get heavier. So, I moved to G710+, and I'm very happy now.

I'm surprised you say this. I was having issues with wrist pain at work from typing so bought myself a keyboard with cherry mx browns - has done wonders for me.

A low travel scissor keyboard, Apple keyboards or a high quality membrane keyboard like Microsoft Ergonomic series are very nice and comfortable keyboards in my opinion too. However today's mechanical keyboards are a bit different when compared to older ones.

First of all, the new switches are way too lighter than an old buckling spring or Cherry Blue equivalents. Also the ones I use (Cherry MX Brown) are way lighter than any moderately worn membrane keyboard.

The new keys are also more silent when compared to older buckling ones. If you want noise, you can use Cherry MX Blue. If you want absolute silence with no feedback whatsoever, you can use Cherry MX RED (and its friends). I personally prefer Cherry MX Brown, which is a good compromise between noise and feedback. My office friends are using Sun's old mechanical keyboards, and it doesn't bother any of us noise-wise.

Also, the mechanical keyboards give a much consistent feedback and their key weight doesn't change with age. I've used a Microsoft Ergonomic 4000 for ~10 years and its weight changes over the years.

Last but not least, nearly all of them are backlit. This is a huge plus for me.

I'm not after customization or anything in my devices (which is hugely useful for some), but its comfort benefits and consistency both reduced the fatigue and increased my writing speed and accuracy at the same time.

Although I agree with you I wonder if it’s just an artifact of how we were trained to type. When I see kids type on glass they don’t seem to require this tactile feedback. In 5-10 years, basically when today’s 10 year olds are of working age, I wonder what we will see.

But I do understand we need good keyboards today.

Here is a small study that looked at it in kids: http://www.bradycline.com/2013/03/ipad-typing/

When I'm looking to the keyboard of my phone or tablet, I also don't need feedback, however while writing on a desktop PC or workstation and writing code full speed, physical keyboard gives my brain hints for alignment and takes another concentration task from my consciousness.

Another effect is the screen size. You can see the keyboard and text area in your vision on a phone or tablet, but it's not possible in a desktop or laptop.

Looks like it boils down to the information that we can gather about our fingers and hitting targets with the vision and other senses during writing.

Funny thing is, I can write faster while I'm listening to music and cannot hear the keys' sounds.

Definitely. It’s interesting how personal it all is. I guess I’m just theorizing how long until we are the modern equivalent of a writer who can only write with a typewriter.

When I was a kid writers would discuss typewriters very similar to how we discuss keyboards. I haven't seen a typewriter in years. ;)

I like the flat style of Apple scissor keyboards, but I won’t discount what could be done with a touch surface “keyboard”. Why worry about emulating the feel of a mechanical keyboard? I love swipe keyboards on phones; removing physical keys makes that frictionless on computer keyboards. (Though predictive text may not be as fun for terminal flags.) And there are probably other gains to be made if you can unlearn what you learned from Mavis Beacon.

For that matter, why emulate a mechanical keyboard at all? If we unlearn the whole ”static” key concepts maybe there is even more to gain. Probably too late for me though. ;)

Sorry, but you have to specify which color of Cherry MX.

I've already specified that I'm using Cherry MX Brown in my Comment. No?

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