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I get anxiety when I smoke and am way too young to attribute it to any sort of “reeder madness” - so it’s definitely a thing. I don’t smoke super often, and don’t always get anxiety when I do, but it definitely gave me terrible anxiety when I was younger.

If anyone else gets anxiety when they smoke, I recommend smoking sativa instead of indica (nicknamed “in da couch” because of its anxiety effects). I was given the tip from a stoner friend, and it’s fsirly true in my experience.

The same happens to me, but the next day I feel a significant decrease in anxiety. I wonder if the pro-anxiety effects of THC are overcome by the anti-anxiety effects of CBD over time (e.g. the anxiety effects of THC last for a few hours, the milder anti-anxiety effects of CBD last for a couple of days).

FWIW, I have the opposite reaction to different strains. Sativa gives me anxiety, while indica makes me want to relax and take a nap. Really hope researchers can start testing effects so we can figure out where this can help anxiety. So many people I know struggle with it; I'd love for them to have a way to treat it.

I hear this repeated a lot in different variations, some people say the exact opposite, but it's untrue.

There's no real definition of what a '100% sativa' or '100% indica' even is. All we have to go by are characteristic leaf patterns between indica/sativa. In short, the whole 'indica body buzz' thing is unfounded. In fact, I remember hearing the EXACT opposite of what you heard a few years ago. I was told that sativa caused anxiety and indica was more calming.

The reality is that the only differences between strains are in combinations of THC to CBD. Plants with higher CBD and lower THC will be more 'calming' and plants with higher THC and lower CBD will get you more high, which can produce more anxiety in people sensitive to THC.

This is a good first-order approximation, but there are other cannabinoids which influence the effects: CBN, THCV, and others [0]. Additionally, based on first-hand anecdata, I think there is good reason to believe that the terpene profile can have a big effect on the experience, as well as the flavor [1].

But, yeah, if THC causes anxiety for you, try to never go above a 1:1 THC:CBD ratio. For comparison, most sativas are around 200:1 (20% THC : .1% CBD). Since CBD is legal over the counter, you can usually enforce this ratio, regardless of the THC source.

[0] https://www.leafly.com/news/cannabis-101/list-major-cannabin... [1] https://www.leafly.com/news/cannabis-101/terpenes-the-flavor...

I agree I was oversimplifying, of course there are other cannabinoids in weed that can affect the high. What doesn't though, is how sativa or indica a strain is.

In general the rule of thumb is sativa is a head high and indica is a body high.

woosh

1) you got the 2 mixed up, it's indica that's the in-da-couch. Sativa is the brain-high.

2) there's little evidence to prove that sativa/indica strains affect your high. The curing, drying, growing of each individual plant alters the THC-CBD-CBG ratios way more than strain or species.

Point number 2 is utterly untrue as any experienced cannabis enthusiast could tell you. Even if people don't know the strain or what the effects are it's pretty reliable that it will either energize them or send them to sleep.

It's not untrue, there is no definition genetically of what a pure sativa/indica strain even is, see my other comment here.

What they were saying is anyone with experience in cannabis can tell you after a few minute of smoking if it's sativa or indica. Doesn't matter if there is no genetic definition, there are obvious differences.

There aren't, and those subjective reports can't tell us anything related to how 'sativa' or 'indica' some strain is. The only thing that affects high is CBD-THC ratios (and possibly other alkaloids) & those are independent of strain.

Interesting - I had assumed the opposite! I picked up a few different blends a while back hoping to address some (relatively mild) social anxiety and it worked well at first but later started giving me horrible anxiety (oddly only later that night - I'd take a small dose in the morning and be fine all day, then freak out from 1am to 4am.) Tried a bunch of different blends of thc:cbd with little luck, but I was sticking mostly to indica thinking sativa was more likely to cause anxiety.

I think they have this the wrong way round. Indica is known for its relaxation effects. Couch lock isn't due to anxiety but relaxed passivity, and sativa strains tend to promote overthinking and paranoia in those (inc. myself) prone to it.

No. It depends on the person entirely and if you start digging you will find about equal distribution of people who are calmed by a sativa and people who are calmed by an indica. I personally suspect that people who feel calm from a sativa are a little ADHD and it seems to make them think better and more calmly and indicas make them much more anxious because it exacerbates and existing condition.

anecdotal, but i am certainly an individual with adhd and i personally find strains marketed as indica dominant to be far more effective for anxiety relief and just general functionality. it also may just be a random correlation, but i always recalled seeing higher levels of cbd in indica based strains when I lived in Washington and the actual levels of cbd and thc in the product was listed on the packaging. i certainly don't think this is strong evidence that such a thing is the case, in an overarching empirical sense, but i can at least say, with confidence, that for me, indica dominant is much less anxiety inducing

This kind of matches my experience - the anxiety I get is from feeling like my mind is slowing down / not totally working properly and not knowing if it will ever come back. I think I am a bit ADHD, and caffeine has a kind of calming effect on me as well, so might be worth trying a sativa blend.

I'm am glad you are helping your daughter thought this . This disease is such a cruel thing to have .

I would like to offer some extra info .

Since you are looking for OTC . Both NAC and SACROSINE have a lot of great research when it comes to schezophrenia. It seems to work for some but not others.also new research into TMG (betaine glycine) is also interesting

There is also a new drug on the horizon that doesn't work on the dopamine receptors and has much less side effects than what's currently

SEP-363856 helps treat negative symptoms of schizophrenia such as Inability to experience pleasure, Lack of interest in relationships, Lack of motivation. 5HT1A and taar1 agonist

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/913348

MIN-101 - a ~20% BDNF increase. Treats negative symptoms of schizophrenia. 5HT2A and sigma2 receptor antagonist.

Min-101 has a targeted release of 2021/2022. After they have completed their 12 week phase 3 trial, they will do a 36 week phase 4 trial. SEP, should also be available sometime in those two years as well.

Hope your daughter finds peace

I have a mutation which results in impaired BDNF and I do suffer from anxiety; so far buspirone seems to work, but I was considering SEMAX/SELANK for the BDNF increase, do you know anything about that?

I can tell you it'll make your hair fall out.

And maybe make you 20% less anxious/more focused, but honestly it's hard to say... actually, in retrospect I never experienced acute anxiety when I was experimenting with it. Certainly worth a shot.

Does the hair come back after you stop using it?

I already have moderate male pattern baldness :)

20% seems ok to me, buspirone is not that great either, but I never experienced panic attacks while on it(actually I only experienced panic attacks while on stimulants), and if I had another option like SELANK/SEMAX with the BDNF boosting bonus, that would be great.

I'll give them a shot.

I'm not sure but I think it's permanent. If you don't mind getting balder than you currently are, great.

Semax can make your hair fall out slightly selank doesn't . Ive heard good stories about both . Try them both out but start with semax . Do it long term .

Fasting can increase bdnf by 3.5 times . Research intermittent fasting and also long term fasting (48 hours) .

There is just so much that can increase bdnf but as a rule of thumb when it comes to herbs . Studies mostly are short term and just not as good .

I recommend coming over to the nootropics subreddit and research/ask there

I tend to worry a lot and it's fine during the day, but it really amps up at bedtime and I lie awake with racing thoughts. It sounds worth trying the magnesium glycinate (at least for a week) - from what you say taking it around half an hour before bed will let me know if it helps or not?

For the record I've tried melatonin etc - the issue is NOT being tired or even sleepy. My brain just refuses to shut off, to the point where I've started seeing things while awake, when one part starts dreaming and the other refuses to. This usually results in me jumping awake with an extra load of adrenaline to delay my sleep.

IANAD. The glycerinate does have a better absorption rate but and taking over 300mg a day regularly apparently has the potential for side effects (beside those bowel effects) - at least that's what I've gathered looking into Mg supplements previously.

Yes, it's a trade off and she needs to adjust the doses down if she can.

Right now she's in shit shape mentally after being ditched by her fiancé so hopefully time will help her get over that, but truly amazing how well and quickly the magnesium glycinate helps calm her down.

Physically she's as strong as can be. She's a level II Crossfit trainer and stronger than me. We're going try transitioning towards getting the magnesium from food sources if we can get her over this hump. She eats healthy, but she's obviously not getting enough magnesium and burning it up quickly right now.

You can use Mag Oil as another way to get Mg into the body. Its basically Magnesium Sulphate aka Epsom Salts mixed with water and rubbed on the skin. If its really concentrated it will sting the skin, but dilute to reduce the stinging effect. Alternatively soak in a bath with Magnesium Sulphate. https://www.epsomsaltcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/...

Any sulphate can be absorbed through the skin, so soaking in copper sulphate will get more copper into the body which is useful for all types of Collagen. Copper will also make smokers feel like they are smoking their very first cigarette, ie they will feel nauseous if they smoke within 30mins of taking a copper supplement. I wouldnt advise applying copper sulphate directly onto the skin though as it will debride the skin and is now only used by the US Military for cleaning extreme wounds.

Magnesium irritates the lower bowel hence the diarrhea, so if taken orally, its better to take little and often through the day rather than one big supplement for a day, and always take after eating because tablets breakdown in the gut and get into the blood stream quickly.

Magnesium is also used to make ATP (Adenosine triphosphate) which helps provide cellular energy so being superfit, her demands for Mg will be higher than a sedate person. Taking Potassium also helps the cells take up glucose, amino acids and other nutrients including magnesium whilst sodium makes the cells take up just water, so in a way sodium starves cells at a cellular level, which could help contribute to a variety of problems including anxiety. To get your daily potassium intake of 4.7grams, you would need to eat 11 large banana's a day. One sign you are deficient in Potassium is you crave sugary foods after eating, but if you supplement around >2g with potassium (chloride/bicarbonate) your sugar cravings will go.

Has she checked her magnesium blood levels?

It might be that she's not actually deficient, but magnesium is a NMDA antagonist (afik) and the axiety relief might come from that.

I'm just saying that magnesium might be a temporary fix, but she might get magnesium "poisoned" (if that's a thing) and you should search for an actual drug that has the same mechanism of action as magnesium does, but something that doesn't build up in your system.

Very interesting, I have noticed a major (albeit fun) experience of mania from CBD, followed by extreme rebound anxiety after cessation following a period of taking it for a while.

THC-heavy strains on the other hand, seem to have no bad effects.

Just a heads up. The glycine(of the glycinate) might be helping just as much as the magnesium. Glycine is relaxing and theorized to help with schizophrenia. (through nmda signalling)

If you're interest in other supplements that have preliminary evidence for helping with schizophrenia are bacopa and sodium benzoate are maybe worth a try.[0][1]

- Obviously talk to your doctor about it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29397899 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=bacopa+schizophren...

> sodium benzoate

Note that in combination with vitamin C, sodium benzoate may form benzene, which is toxic. But perhaps this is only relevant if you store them together, and at higher temperatures (?)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_benzoate#Association_wi...

+1 for Mg. I prefer the citrate salt as I find it faster acting and doesn't give me the same digestive issues, but it's so damned effective for general anxiety I even keep a bottle in my desk at work!

What brand and kind of CBD do you use ?

It's high CBD content oil that's got a private label brand. I'm not familiar with the supplier, but the supplement store we buy it from is locally owned and very reputable. My daughter works for them on occasion. They also sell CBD buds and she says she likes those better than the oil.

So it's under the tongue intake ? or is it vaporized and inhaled ?

Does she feel other improvements as well ? eating, sleeping or else ?

People take cannabis to help them manage the effects of schizophrenia but corrupt media used to play it other way around. Cannabis causes schizophrenia! If there was justice in this world, then all the editors allowing this should rot in jail.

Dude. CBD is antipsychotic[1] and thus might help people with schizophrenia. THC is psychoactive [2] and should probably be avoided by people with schizophrenia.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22716160 [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28492950

I think that's what the poster is saying. I believe "Cannabis causes schizophrenia!" should be in quotes.

Yes, but the replier is saying that THC, the primary active compound in Cannabis, can in fact worsen some of the symptoms of schizophrenia. As someone with Type I Bipolar, which has many similarities to schizophrenia, I agree that this is often the case.

That's why it should be legal so people who need it won't have to fiddle with the dealers. Obviously big pharma pays a lot so that won't happen.

I'm 100% with you there.

This is exactly what I meant. Thanks for sharing your experience.