If you live in a city in the Netherlands, you are surely used to 90% of vehicles (as in, bikes) not making a sound?
'Cyclist behind some pedestrians, other slow cyclists'
'Cyclist either rings bell or says 'excuse me''
In a car situation, the car would have to honk its horn which is much more interrupting to people trying to sleep then small 'vmmm' which is only hearable in a small radius around the car.
Peds and cyclists often share spaces, and cyclists and cars also often share spaces. The issue is how can a faster silent vehicle safely and socially share a space with slower more vulnerable vehicles.
We have daily accidents with peds walking into a bike path unpredictably and causing conflict. (Not necessarily a crash but annoyance by cyclist having to do evasive maneuver). However if an crash happens its not usually do bad, while even a low speed collision with a car will damage your bike and the car and cost $$$.
So I wouldn't look at the bike as an example of a silent vehicle working well in a city environment. We have many accidents they are just also very minor accidents.
For the people who will point out that this could also be solved with better infrastructure, I agree. Most of the accidents happen at places where e.g. peds get a green light to cross the road and then continue to cross the cycle path on the other side because in their mind they are protected by the green light, but actually now cyclists have right of way. Sometimes we put zebra crossings across bike paths but then everyone is confused because the cyclists don't stop anyway and it just causes more conflict because still the rules are being broken but just by the other party now.
tl;dr rules are confusing and people don't follow them anyway. A city environment is super dynamic, and often infrastructure cannot be changed. Adding 'vmmm's makes those interactions much easier, and its really doesn't cause the noise pollution people keep talking about.
I also wonder whether cars ought to have something less loud than the horn, for communicating with people who aren't encased in metal. Like trams (many places) have a little bell.
When I’m in NYC, I always wish there was a counter for horn-presses that eventually triggers an automatic fine if you use your horn too much.
I'm curious how much of the honking in NYC is, say, "on your left" vs "up yours" compared to other cities/countries.
In a car situation, the car would have to honk its horn which is much more interrupting to people trying to sleep then small 'vmmm' which is only hearable in a small radius around the car.
Give the electric car a little bell? (Former electric car driver here.)
I drive a hybrid and at least once I simply opened the window and said "excuse me" - people were surprised, but also happy to not hear the horn.
People will have to adapt to silent cars. But that's scary.
Everybody knows that you have to look before making a turn or changing lanes. We also know that by and large people who listen to music or have a headset for a phone conversation are not killed en masse.
I think that is law is a pity. There is enough noise pollution already.
Comparing even a fairly low number of deaths and serious injuries vs a minor noise from moving cars and it’s an obvious choice IMO.
Basically everybody has to pay the price of having more noise pollution to save a few people not paying attention at what they are doing.
The reason we get these kinds rules is because there is a regulatory framework for cars. which makes it easy to add additional requirements.
For example, in the Netherlands both electric mopeds and high speed electric bikes get more popular. Certainly the bikes are at high speed essentially silent (small bike tires have less friction and make less noise).
Because there is no framework to require bikes to make noise they don't have to. And needless to say, a collision with a bike going 45 km/h will do a lot of damage.
If people bumping into silent things was a wide spread problem, then yes it would make sense to require every thing to make noise.
But these types of accidents are just that, accidents. They will always happen. Taking random measures to reduce accidents with an unknown amount will just make society as a whole worse.
It’s not random, actual studies gave demonstrated the risk for years. https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/... “The HEV was two times more likely to be involved in a pedestrian crash in these situations than was an ICE vehicle.”
And no it’s not just about people not paying attention, the blind don’t get the option on this one.
Note that the report says 'Incidence rates provided in this report should be interpreted with caution due to the small sample size.'
If this was solid engineering, there would minimum noise requirements to help people with reduced vision.
This is similar to having a man with a flag walk in front of car. Because those horseless vehicles are just scary.
Here is a more recent example with far more data. https://www.iihs.org/media/0465243f-89d5-4fa7-95c1-367f1e2c1...
Overall it’s on the order of hundreds more deaths in the US alone assuming every car becomes a hybrid or electric vehicle without these systems.
The average reaction time for humans is 0.25 seconds to a visual stimulus, 0.17 for an audio stimulus. You’re crossing at a crosswalk past stopped cars and someone takes their foot off the break, you will dodge faster with engine noises. And, it’s not just about crossing the street, knowing a car is on changes how people walk past seemingly parked cars.
Worse, saying you will just get this right every single time you do it, however you only need to make a mistake once to die.
A claimed 0.08 seconds improved reaction time (were you implying that was a lot? because a slow-moving car doesn't go far in 0.08s) is not enough reason in my opinion to have what are bound to be deafening beepers everywhere. So noise! much safety! You are proposing a ridiculous noisy dystopia. Imagine a carpark full of cars loudly beeping at all times!
Cars should have sensors like parking sensors for when they're moving slowly, or flashing lights, or literally any other solution than more meaningless noise in our already much too noisy environment.
You are overstating the danger with your, "you only need to make a mistake once to die" alarmism.
But I wonder if there’s one thing missing here. Hybrids have a lot higher low-end torque. I think the definitive study would be on a hybrid car with and without the noise, and I’m not sure if they ever tried to do that for the Leaf?
A minor noise from moving cars? How about this horrifying little marketing piece from Nissan [1] about their new “Canto” noise they are going to emit?
Besides, these noise levels are calibrated to be loud enough in a bustling city at high noon. They are not dynamic based on time of day, or location, or actual ambient sound levels. So, in other words, they will be loud and obnoxious, particularly outside of the city, where ambient is almost 20dB lower.
Diesel engines, endemic in Europe even in small cars, are particularly noisy.