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Comment by ihuman | Hacker News Reader

I don't think this is allowed under USA Amateur radio rules.

> §97.113 Prohibited transmissions.

> (b) An amateur station shall not engage in any form of broadcasting, nor may an amateur station transmit one-way communications except as specifically provided in these rules; nor shall an amateur station engage in any activity related to program production or news gathering for broadcasting purposes, except that communications directly related to the immediate safety of human life or the protection of property may be provided by amateur stations to broadcasters for dissemination to the public where no other means of communication is reasonably available before or at the time of the event.

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=3fe986fb082211e728...

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Why are hams the closest thing to the equivalent of tech tattle-tales?

Any time I see someone doing something neat and legally grey on radio, some ham operator has to come in, quote their understanding of the law, and chastise everyone. What's the point? Do they get to feel some sense of authority and privilege that the rest of the nerd world don't for a few minutes?

Just let people do cool stuff and don't snitch.

Hams are continuously fighting to keep their spectrum (and slowly losing it to commercial interests). It is a commonly held belief that unlicensed hackers or hams breaking the law hurts the community’s arguments for keeping their spectrum.

So it’s not viewed in the ham community as tattling, but rather self policing. Because if they don’t do it themselves then papa FCC is just going to take away everyone’s toys. Responsible and lawful use of radios is the name of the game.

Source: I’m a general class licensed ham.

I’m an extra class and I’ve heard this argument my entire life. I think it’s bunk. If Congress wants to take away anything they don’t need a reason.

You know what will make ham radio lose its spectrum? Have zero constituency, which will happen once we have run off anyone who wants to experiment on the edge of what is possible with ham radio.

No users means no one left to object when the band is taken away and given to someone else.

I have zero interest in unencrypted over-the-air communications. The Internet can already trivially reach stations all the way out to the antipode of the planet, at any time of day or night, with my choice of public or private messaging. I can't wait until the spectrum-protectionist people die off and yield the bandwidth to the SDR robot builders that can use it for a digital transport layer.

Once the technical capabilities surpass the administrative permissions, the fun of hacking anything dies, for exactly the reason mentioned. Rather than the hardware saying "you can't do that", it's some old-guard buttinsky, and when the hacker says "wanna bet?", rather than slowly yielding to relentless experimentation, they make a call or two and then the hacker gets fined or their equipment is seized.

When every interesting application I can think of for ham radio has a regulation explicitly saying "no, that's not allowed", people just find another hobby to get into.

Yup, similar thing in model rocketry circles for similar reasons.

Tattle-tales? These are federal laws, not some personal guidelines we're talking about. Screwing with them not only lands you in trouble but all of ham radio, because the government is always looking for reasons to take away spectrum and sell it to the highest bidder. Radio spectrum is a finite resource, you can't make more of it. So expect hams to be cranky when people are fucking around and trying to ruin it for us.

Be thankful you only have to deal with irritated hams and not a team of Verizon lawyers.

Technically CFR Title 47 part 97 are not federal laws but are instead FCC regulations. Consider talking to a lawyer about the difference.

Because breaking the rules ruins it for everyone. With very little equipment and effort, you can completely shut down portions of the ham band worldwide. A handful of people decide to do this, and the ability is gone for everyone.

What little space we do have allocated to us is constantly under attack, because there's always money to be made from selling RF spectrum. If VHF/UHF becomes just a place for computers sending cryptocurrency to each other, eventually the FCC is going to step in and decide "hey, we could be selling this!" Then it's gone forever, and the age of radio experimentation is over.

If you want to go interfere with licensed transmissions to protest the FCC, go for it! I hope you enjoy the inside of federal courtrooms, though.

Hams care about people following FCC rules in much the same way gun owners care about ATF regulations, or car-club members care about whether modifications are steet-legal (or CA Smog-legal), or DIY forum people care about work being permitted and done to code, etc. etc.

Some of it is people being cranky, sure, but breaking the rules and regulations of a federal agency is generally not the best idea even if you don't mean any harm by it.

The rules are a major part of the exam required to get a license so most hams know them well. The FCC and the ARRL make a big deal out of knowing and following the rules. It's simply part of the culture.

Maybe they care about the law.

Well it wouldn't be cyberpunk without breaking a few rules.

> Well it wouldn't be cyberpunk without breaking a few rules.

The title says _cypher_punk not _cyber_punk. But I'd misread it myself on the first glance.

I actually did notice that, but I decided to say cyberpunk anyways because I related more to that term.

cypher is encryption and punk in context means outside the box. not necessarily a criminal or outlaw.

>Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero knowledge, reputations, information markets, black markets, collapse of governments.

to each their own. know the difference.

Or else what?

If you're a registered ham, the FCC has your address, so they can fine you or revoke the license.

And if you’re not, registered hams make a game out of finding particularly egregious pirate stations and reporting them to the FCC.

Why do they do it though? It's not like the FCC is going to pay them for their time... I suppose if someone is really broadcasting garbage and disrupting communications then I can see the issue.

Whackers are definitely a thing. And they'll doxx and locate you in real life. And worse yet, they'll even think they have some sort of license for 'citizens arrest', or FCC reporting.

> Why do they do it though?

Power tripping, primarily.

> I suppose if someone is really broadcasting garbage and disrupting communications then I can see the issue.

Standard disruption or otherwise will usually get you caught. But sending 200 bytes that happens to be cryptocurrency isn't likely to be found, or caught... Unless you're dumb enough to do it on a repeater (that probably records and streams online).

> §97.111 Authorized transmissions.

> (b) In addition to one-way transmissions specifically authorized elsewhere in this part, an amateur station may transmit the following types of one-way communications:

> (1) Brief transmissions necessary to make adjustments to the station;

> (2) Brief transmissions necessary to establishing two-way communications with other stations;

> (3) Telecommand;

> (4) Transmissions necessary to providing emergency communications;

> (5) Transmissions necessary to assisting persons learning, or improving proficiency in, the international Morse code; and

> (6) Transmissions necessary to disseminate information bulletins.

> (7) Transmissions of telemetry.

It may fall under "Transmissions necessary to disseminate information bulletins."

> except that communications directly related to the protection of property may be provided by amateur stations to broadcasters for dissemination to the public where no other means of communication is reasonably available before or at the time of the event.

Are transactions or "coins" property? Wouldn't this exception cover the case where you've lost internet "no other means of communication" and are protecting your transactions?

But the information bulletins must be on the topic of amateur radio: Definition in 97.3.

True. I forgot to cross reference the definitions.

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