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Comment by clay_the_ripper | Hacker News Reader

If you live in the US, Apple has a no questions asked 14 day return policy. When my computer goes in for service I just buy one, restore my machine from time machine onto it, and then return it.

Works great.

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My girlfriend took her 12-inch MacBook in for its 2nd(!) keyboard replacement. When she asked about a loaner, the employee actually recommended buying and returning a new one. She got the new retina Air for a nice 5 day test drive — and now we're both pretty sold on it.

In EU you have similar policy, but it is mandated by law, for all the things that you buy online. I know of people who bought new 55 inch TV only to watch soccer World Cup, and then returned it.

This is the sort of abusive bad behavior that kills things like LL Bean's once-awesome return policy.

There are people who have been told to do exactly this by Apple's own staff, according to a quick search on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/arno_app/status/1056943680249061383

https://twitter.com/dogslime/status/966026523579994114

https://twitter.com/caseyhelbling/status/1113486373191704576

https://twitter.com/FatBodyPolitics/status/95158147758154547...

With tens of thousands of retail workers involved, that's hardly surprising that some would suggest the technique.

That doesn't change the fact that these sorts of abuses of a return policy cost everyone else money, and risk getting the policy shortened/restricted for all.

Or force Apple to do the right thing, which is maintain a fleet of refurbed machines for loaners.

Agreed, if your MacBook is critical to your job, shouldn't you have Apple Care or some sort of insurance policy to ensure you get a timely replacement? Relying on Apple's goodwill seems like risky business.

I have AppleCare+ and my keyboard replacement required the store to send it in. Makes no difference.

Being in their "Joint Venture" business program does, though.

https://www.apple.com/retail/business/jointventure/terms.htm...

> Equipment Loaner Service. If the issue with your Mac Computer requires us to keep it for more than twenty‑four (24) hours, you will be provided the option of borrowing a similar Apple product from our pool of loaner products ("Loaner") based on availability at your local Apple Retail Store. Apple is not obliged to provide a Loaner that is the same as, or of equivalent or better functionality or appearance to your Mac Computer; nor does Apple make any representation that a specific software program is or will be installed on your Loaner. Please see below for additional terms and conditions relating to this Equipment Loaner Service.

Joint Venture is $500/year, IIRC.

Sure beats an idle software developer.

I agree; I have it and I don’t even write software full time (and have 2 other laptops). Its main advantage to me is that it lets me cut the line for getting service appointments in-store.

How did you even find out about its existence to begin with?

Wow. Discoverability of that program is low.

Search "loaner" on apple.com - hundreds of results relating to iPhone financing, and Clean Supplier Standards Codes. No mention of this program.

Search "Joint Venture" if you're lucky enough to know the name - results on the use of Conflict Minerals, and Sustainability Reports. No mention of this program.

If the Macbook was bought in 2015 or early 2016, Apple Care no longer applies.

How often do you replace laptops? We're on a 3-year schedule across the organization, PC or Mac. All leased or covered by some sort of business-class warranty/service plan. It can be slightly annoying, as IT doesn't do any in-house repairs any more, but it mostly works. I thought a 3-year replacement schedule was fairly standard.

Unfortunately not. There are also 4-5 year renewal cycles. In any case, for the affected machines, there is no Apple Care aware any more as it is limited to 3 years after purchase.

This is an even greater problem with iPads, Apple Care only lasts for 2 years after the purchase, so any significant repair after that usually means a total loss.

FYI, purchasing with a credit csrd likely extends that by another full year, if not two years. Check your card benefits.

I don’t think Apple cares about this. I tell them exactly what I’m going to do when I do it, and they don’t care.

Fact is, it’s the only option. I cannot possibly not have a computer for 2 weeks as a run a business. So I don’t see any possible alternative.

There is an option. Apple offers a business program called “Joint Venture” that includes loaners. Sounds like exactly what you need.

It wouldn’t be needed if Apple behaved well in the first place and made non-shitty batteries.

So you tie up $2000+ during that time.

I guessing OP is using a credit card, so no money is tied up.

Only for the fortunate souls whose billing cycle is in the other half of the month.

And those who live in places where credit cards are a common thing.

Here, most people have so-called credit cards with no actual credit lines tied to them

And no, they aren't debit cards. Those are yet another's thing over here, apparently.

Nothing to do with the original subject, but does anyone else feel like opacity is the core of retail banking's business model?

These cards exist in the US as well. They're called "charge cards" here. The classic American Express card is one example. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure that anyone else still issues them.

You can pick what part of the month you bring the laptop in, it doesn't have to be tomorrow.

Great point. I don't have $2500 to just tie up for that time.

It's stupid. Just fix it in store.

Have you seen the procedure necessary to do a battery replacement on one of these stupidly-designed things?

I'm ecstatic to see what hopefully amounts to a financial penalty for Apple horrible policy of making these unserviceable things.

I wonder how Apple staff takes this:

"Hi, I'd like to return this Macbook I purchased. Also, I'd like to pick up my laptop which you guys were working on"

They have no problem. They don't even ask why you are returning it.

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