Hacker News Reader

Comment by mindgam3 | Hacker News Reader

> Customer safety is always Apple's top priority, and we have voluntarily decided to replace affected batteries, free of charge.

Cool!

> Service may take 1-2 weeks.

Wait, what?

View on HN

Half our company are still using these, what's the smart thing to do here? I assume actual risk of fire is very minimal, but the advice is to "please stop using it". Losing our machines for a couple weeks would be pretty impactful...

I had both speakers blown out, three keys with chipped paint, and a couple sticky keys, so I got it replaced and fixed with their latest keyboard replacement program. I was told that the way to go about getting a "loaner" machine is to ship out your broken machine, buy a new one on a credit card, and then bring the new one back once you receive your replacement. Apple has a 30-day full refund policy.

I never went through with buying a new one and returning it, but it's something to look into or ask about!

(After some quick Googling, it looks like it's a 14-day return policy, not 30..)

>I was told that the way to go about getting a "loaner" machine is to ship out your broken machine, buy a new one on a credit card, and then bring the new one back once you receive your replacement.

Who told you to do that? (Are we talking, like, a friend? Or an actual Apple employee?)

The only reason I ask is because I thought that was "return fraud."

An actual Apple employee.

Half our company are still using these

It's been years since I was involved in this sort of thing, but at one time Apple had separate people to handle business accounts, especially ones with many machines.

Buy some ThinkPads or zBooks or Latitudes, give those to a subset of your affected users, then send the freed-up units to service. Repeat until all affected units have been serviced.

Then, when the time comes (soon?) to replace the 2015-2017 MBPs, consider whether you'd rather repeat that with future MBPs or buy something different that has on-site same-day service and user-replaceable batteries and other components.

Unfortunately some work (Mac, and iOS development) requires a Mac OS device.

And for that, at least in this sort of situation, I'd expect a company to at least temporarily look into the various services that enable you to rent a MacOS device in the cloud for the moments you need it (usually app builds).

And where would you run xcode? The IDE you use to develop.

You should know better than to post that suggestion in a thread full of Apple users with Mac OS lockin ... But don't worry, now my comment will be accompanying yours in the HN downvote afterlife :P

You might be able to use an authorized Apple Service Provider for the repair and have the machines out of your hands for way less time.

For example, I just had the battery (+ top case) on my late 2013 15" MBP replaced this week. I brought it to a local service shop for a quick inspection, then took the machine home. Part arrived the next day, brought it back in, and it was all done in a couple of hours.

I would be very reluctant to give up my computer for 1-2 weeks. If they are so concerned about safety, they should either fix it when I bring it to the store or give me a replacement.

If you live in the US, Apple has a no questions asked 14 day return policy. When my computer goes in for service I just buy one, restore my machine from time machine onto it, and then return it.

Works great.

This is the sort of abusive bad behavior that kills things like LL Bean's once-awesome return policy.

There are people who have been told to do exactly this by Apple's own staff, according to a quick search on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/arno_app/status/1056943680249061383

https://twitter.com/dogslime/status/966026523579994114

https://twitter.com/caseyhelbling/status/1113486373191704576

https://twitter.com/FatBodyPolitics/status/95158147758154547...

With tens of thousands of retail workers involved, that's hardly surprising that some would suggest the technique.

That doesn't change the fact that these sorts of abuses of a return policy cost everyone else money, and risk getting the policy shortened/restricted for all.

Or force Apple to do the right thing, which is maintain a fleet of refurbed machines for loaners.

Agreed, if your MacBook is critical to your job, shouldn't you have Apple Care or some sort of insurance policy to ensure you get a timely replacement? Relying on Apple's goodwill seems like risky business.

I have AppleCare+ and my keyboard replacement required the store to send it in. Makes no difference.

Being in their "Joint Venture" business program does, though.

https://www.apple.com/retail/business/jointventure/terms.htm...

> Equipment Loaner Service. If the issue with your Mac Computer requires us to keep it for more than twenty‑four (24) hours, you will be provided the option of borrowing a similar Apple product from our pool of loaner products ("Loaner") based on availability at your local Apple Retail Store. Apple is not obliged to provide a Loaner that is the same as, or of equivalent or better functionality or appearance to your Mac Computer; nor does Apple make any representation that a specific software program is or will be installed on your Loaner. Please see below for additional terms and conditions relating to this Equipment Loaner Service.

Joint Venture is $500/year, IIRC.

Sure beats an idle software developer.

I agree; I have it and I don’t even write software full time (and have 2 other laptops). Its main advantage to me is that it lets me cut the line for getting service appointments in-store.

How did you even find out about its existence to begin with?

Wow. Discoverability of that program is low.

Search "loaner" on apple.com - hundreds of results relating to iPhone financing, and Clean Supplier Standards Codes. No mention of this program.

Search "Joint Venture" if you're lucky enough to know the name - results on the use of Conflict Minerals, and Sustainability Reports. No mention of this program.

If the Macbook was bought in 2015 or early 2016, Apple Care no longer applies.

How often do you replace laptops? We're on a 3-year schedule across the organization, PC or Mac. All leased or covered by some sort of business-class warranty/service plan. It can be slightly annoying, as IT doesn't do any in-house repairs any more, but it mostly works. I thought a 3-year replacement schedule was fairly standard.

Unfortunately not. There are also 4-5 year renewal cycles. In any case, for the affected machines, there is no Apple Care aware any more as it is limited to 3 years after purchase.

This is an even greater problem with iPads, Apple Care only lasts for 2 years after the purchase, so any significant repair after that usually means a total loss.

FYI, purchasing with a credit csrd likely extends that by another full year, if not two years. Check your card benefits.

I don’t think Apple cares about this. I tell them exactly what I’m going to do when I do it, and they don’t care.

Fact is, it’s the only option. I cannot possibly not have a computer for 2 weeks as a run a business. So I don’t see any possible alternative.

There is an option. Apple offers a business program called “Joint Venture” that includes loaners. Sounds like exactly what you need.

It wouldn’t be needed if Apple behaved well in the first place and made non-shitty batteries.

So you tie up $2000+ during that time.

I guessing OP is using a credit card, so no money is tied up.

Only for the fortunate souls whose billing cycle is in the other half of the month.

And those who live in places where credit cards are a common thing.

Here, most people have so-called credit cards with no actual credit lines tied to them

And no, they aren't debit cards. Those are yet another's thing over here, apparently.

Nothing to do with the original subject, but does anyone else feel like opacity is the core of retail banking's business model?

These cards exist in the US as well. They're called "charge cards" here. The classic American Express card is one example. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure that anyone else still issues them.

You can pick what part of the month you bring the laptop in, it doesn't have to be tomorrow.

Great point. I don't have $2500 to just tie up for that time.

It's stupid. Just fix it in store.

Have you seen the procedure necessary to do a battery replacement on one of these stupidly-designed things?

I'm ecstatic to see what hopefully amounts to a financial penalty for Apple horrible policy of making these unserviceable things.

In EU you have similar policy, but it is mandated by law, for all the things that you buy online. I know of people who bought new 55 inch TV only to watch soccer World Cup, and then returned it.

I wonder how Apple staff takes this:

"Hi, I'd like to return this Macbook I purchased. Also, I'd like to pick up my laptop which you guys were working on"

They have no problem. They don't even ask why you are returning it.

My girlfriend took her 12-inch MacBook in for its 2nd(!) keyboard replacement. When she asked about a loaner, the employee actually recommended buying and returning a new one. She got the new retina Air for a nice 5 day test drive — and now we're both pretty sold on it.

Lack of NBD service from Apple really sucks

presumably mail turn around? I'm sure it's also padded to give the appearance of speed (e.g they said it would take 1-2 weeks but it only took a few days! Apple is a amazing and I want their babies! ;) )

I imagine they're shipping them to a central location for repair.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com