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Comment by blhack | Hacker News Reader

Retailers are chasing amazon on variety, and delivery, but I actually think the next evolution is curation.

The loyalty my wife and I have to Costco (which, btw also has an incredibly cheap deliver option which is NOT a subscription) is pretty incredible. It’s gotten to the point where we trust the things they’re selling just by virtue of the fact that Costco sells them.

Amazon, Walmart, etc all seems to be sprinting as fast as they can in the other direction. Their online stores for instance, feature an enormous variety of products, most of which aren’t actually in stock at the storefronts, which are a crapshoot of quality.

I personally hope the future of retail looks a lot more like Costco than amazon and wal Mart.

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Purchasing items on Costco.com for delivery, at least in the Bay Area, incurs a premium of about 20% on many (all?) items. This is to ensure the Instacart delivery people are paid fairly. On top of that there's the tipping that is always implied for service work. So it's not incredibly cheap in SF. It's cheaper for me to go there and take a Lyft home if I spend more than $100.

Regardless I agree with your hope that retail looks more like Costco than Amazon.

This website is the only place I ever hear complaints about supposed counterfeits or excessive low quality products on Amazon. I feel like it's not as much of a real issue as it's made out to be, especially to the average person. Personally I still use Amazon regularly and have no real complaints.

I use Amazon frequently and haven't been aware of any quality issues with anything I've purchased (though who knows for sure what their quality is), but there's definitely been an uptick in sketchy looking product alternatives made by unknown pop-up companies when you search for electronics and such. It kind of feels like viewing a modern Google search results page, where at least half the items are the equivalent of search engine-gaming blogspam. It wouldn't shock me if a lot of safety issues and hazardous materials are waiting to be uncovered in a lot of those products.

The only thing in my life I've ever felt compelled to report to the CPSC was a top rated "no name" product on Amazon that caught itself on fire for no good reason (it was even plugged into an AFCI, etc). The CPSC collected it from me and is working on a recall.

I think a lot of that isn't really knockoffs per say it's just a million fly-by-night drop shipping companies rebranding the same stuff.

Eh. I use Amazon fresh and the produce quality used to be good but it's now fairly hit or miss (I'm sticking with in season items only). This isn't crazy stuff. Im talking about bananas, strawberries, etc

By comparison, if I instacart it from Costco, I've found it to be still consistently good.

Your comment doesn’t need make me trust amazon more, but it definitely makes me trust HN more.

I also have experienced no problems with counterfeits but, because it's flagged up here so often, I have become ultra cautious. Anything with a potential for harm, I buy elsewhere now.

Interestingly though, for some stuff, the problem isn't counterfeits it's the incremental degradation of quality of some 'premium' products. Almost all footwear brands, for example, are guilty of this. In some cases, the cheap knock-offs being better than the real thing.

I have seen multiple low quality or counterfeit batteries from amazon. I gave up on buying them there. lithium batteries for my house were extremely poor (lasting a month instead of years), aaa and cr32 batteries were also poor. I have noticed headphones being incredibly crappy also, unlike their reviews. It's really got me to the point I'm afraid to buy stuff from there. I still do, it's so convenient. I feel more comfortable buying clothes if they are us retailers (but the storefronts lie). Why doesn't amazon try to fix this?

Does topical discussion of Amazon come up at other places you frequent? If not, this makes sense.

Have you forgotten the eclipse sunglasses fiasco? It made national news.

Are there HN complaints about Amazon quality/counterfeiting in Europe, or is this a US poor consumer law problem?

Even Jeff Bezos' own newspaper, the Washington Post, recently acknowledged the "scourge of fake goods" on Amazon.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/02/28/amazon-mo...

FWIW, Amazon seems to scrub reviews about counterfeits once they become aware of them. I got a counterfeit item and when I complained about it, I linked to a review that showed exactly the differences between a real and a counterfeit version. After Amazon sent me a replacement (which was also a counterfeit, despite assuring me it would not be), that review was nowhere to be found. There were dozens of other reviews talking about fakes on that item. I did not initially read them because I was replacing one I lost.

I've been an amazon customer for more than 10 years. I buy from them a lot. I will still buy from them. It doesn't mean it's not a problem.

> but I actually think the next evolution is curation.

Curation has value, but not here. I shop walmart because they have everything. Costco has a far more limited shopping list, because there's tons of stuff they just don't have.

Same for Aldi and Trader Joes, they are great for what they have, but it's not enough for my complete grocery needs.

Maybe "curation" isn't quite the right word, but filtering and QC are valuable. If I walk into Walmart I'm much less likely to find counterfeits on the shelves vs. buying online from Amazon, and most products will be generally fit for purpose. As an example I have purchased tie-down straps (not for heavy weight use) on both Amazon and Walmart. The Amazon straps were dyed with some harsh, non-color-fast chemical that smelled terrible and left a nasty black film on everything. The Walmart straps were cheaper, didn't smell bad, and didn't leave residue behind.

It used to be that Amazon was safe to buy most things from. But now, even if I'm getting something cheap, by going to a physical retail store I have some kind of quality floor for what they put on the shelves.

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Since you're talking about groceries, I've also found Walmart in my small hometown has a significantly better produce variety and quality than any Target I've seen in any big city, nearly rivaling that of e.g. Whole Foods (and sometimes surpassing simply because there's a lot more space available).

If I walk into Walmart I'm much less likely to find counterfeits on the shelves vs. buying online from Amazon

Right. Walmart saves money by selling low quality merchandise. It's not counterfeit, it's just garbage. Sometimes they'll start with a quality product (e.g. Vlassic pickles) and just run them into the ground.

Edit: To be clear, WalMart pioneered nearly all the bad behavior that Amazon is exhibiting. Low quality made overseas junk? Squeezing their supply chain mercilessly? Paying unlivable wages? That's WalMart.

WalMart's house brand stuff has been long been regarded as the McDowell's to Target and Trader Joe's McDonald's. And, in fact, WalMart paid plenty of money[1] over selling WalMart (Super Tech) branded motor oil that did not meet the specifications it claimed to meet.

1: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/...

>Trader Joe's

For me it's the opposite. Trader Joe's has reliable staples. When I try to buy something like bacon at Whole Foods (now owned by Amazon) and I have to make sure I'm not getting something unexpected like uncured or unsmoked bacon and that's a waste of energy. When I buy stuff at Trader Joe's it's always been reliably tasty.

> I have to make sure I'm not getting something unexpected like uncured or unsmoked bacon

I take that as a signal that "This store isn't for you--you shouldn't be shopping here." And it's probably correct.

I go to Whole Paycheck for very specific things, but the people who do general shopping at Whole Foods are in some very specific demographics, themselves.

Definitely, but they do both market towards the health/organic food market.

When I try to buy something like bacon at Whole Foods (now owned by Amazon) and I have to make sure I'm not getting something unexpected like uncured or unsmoked bacon and that's a waste of energy

Isn't pretty much all of the bacon at Trader Joe's uncured?

Perhaps I'm using the wrong terms. My only point is that I'm not a huge food enthusiast, and trying to guess which bacon at Whole Foods will "taste like bacon" is why I prefer a more curated grocery store.

Which is still kind of funny because I typically avoid buying bacon at Trader Joe's because it's so off the wall compared to what I'd get elsewhere.

Walmart anyway does more curation than most discount retailers. Buy some Walmart store brand re-closable plastic bags and they will at least work without being frustrating or constantly tearing. Buy the cheapest option at some other cheap store and you are rolling the dice.

They sell lots of stuff that is on the cheap side of the price-quality trade off, don't get me wrong, I just think they've learned to take a step back when they need to.

The name of the game is warping your grocery needs to whatever TJ's sells. My wife is a very very good cook (I'm no slouch but she is amazing), and we eat incredibly well off a combination of Trader Joe's, Costco, and the veggie box. It's gotten to the point where most of our recipes are denominated in terms of what these places sells. Lasagna? That's 2 28 oz. cans of Marinera Toscano sauce, 1 bag shredded mozz., 1 bag shredded quattro formaggio, 1 ricotta, 1 frozen spinach, etc. (All TJ's items).

Funny enough, I just went to Aldi today for the first time, trying to figure out how it fits into the rotation.

Is Veggie Box a store I haven't heard about?

More of a concept - lots of local organisations will setup a subscription whereby they send you a box of vegetables every week. Crucially they get to pick the contents, favouring seasonality. So you get cheap and fresh at the expense of choice.

I guess there is a place for both. But for non curated stores I find eBay more pleasant than Amazon by now.

I agree, though I might put it the other way: Amazon is less pleasant than eBay.

I've stopped using Amazon entirely, and I now get things on eBay I never thought I would back when it first started and was "the flea market of the internet"

I've been selling stuff on eBay recently too and it's so much nicer than FBA. It's also pretty sad that it's now easier to find authentic items on eBay than it is on Amazon.

Costco (which, btw also has an incredibly cheap deliver option which is NOT a subscription)

Don't you have to subscribe to Costco in the first place? Or is Costco letting just anyone shop there now? It's been a lot of years since I let my Costco subscription ("membership") lapse.

You require a membership, ad then you can use Costco.com.

So, pretty much the same as the other services.

No, the whole point was that Costco's inventory is curated.

Exactly. Whenever I have to shop for simple, mundane everyday items that aren't covered in extensive reviews it's incredibly hard to find good products. AmazonBasics is a brand I trust to at least offer decent quality, and sometimes exceptional value. However if AmazonBasics doesn't have the particular product category you're looking for covered, you're basically drowning in a sea of mediocre, barely distinguishable search results that might as well come straight from Alibaba or eBay.

Particularly since those are the kind of products you can hardly research due to lack of reviews, which aren't paid affiliate promotions, I think storefronts like Amazon should step up, curate and limit their selection to worthwhile products.

It's true. I've been buying from places like Target and best buy that don't have third parties because i have a better chance at getting genuine products and less search results. But even Target is adding a marketplace.

Little FYI to other HNers out there: You do not need a membership to buy alcohol at Costco.

Also, Costco liquors are high quality relative to their prices.

Same. Costco doesn’t get much press on how trusted they are imho. It’s fun to shop there and see what new things they are bringing in as well as to keep getting the goods that you need regularly. Their web experience is interesting is that I rarely see free shipping to home or even store.

The meat at Costco is questionable and the chicken is way too big. Everything else I like except some products have way too many pumpkin seeds.

I wonder if the Zip lock bags, plastic warp, and things like aluminum foil are different than grocery stores. Warehouse quality.

Each store makes a tradeoff in selection vs quality control. In terms of random object quality I would say it’s Amazon < Walmart < Costco. And things reverse when you look at selection.

I am flat out never going to consume anything ordered from Amazon ever. However, if I want something random like a sleeping pig statue, and I don’t really care if it’s toxic, it’s a reasonable option.

Costco is one of the few places you will see prime grade meat these days outside of a butcher shop or restaurant.

And at reasonable prices (still more expensive than my local butcher but compares to Choice at Safeway it's a bargain).

Costco consistently has some of the best meat around.

In fact, outside of a butcher, I have never seen better meat. The vast majority of grocery store meat is plain garbage with fancy names to try to hide that it is garbage.

I've never seen anyone buying meat or checking out the meat section at Costco so I just assumed it was the same stuff at the grocery store, except overpriced and in restaurant quantities.

I'll take a look next time.

Costco is kind of famous for steaks and chops and (relatedly) wine. You can get a whole Iberico ham there! I have to believe all of this is a marketing/positioning thing.

You should. They actually have really good whole brisket, for example.

It’s a shame that they go and ruin their steaks by blade tenderizing and noting on the package that this requires them to be cooked to 160F.

So, this is true for some but not all of them.

It also doesn't require them to be cooked to 160, that is a gross oversimplification of food safety that is used to prevent people doing stupid things and not trying to remember tables.

It's really a combination of temperature and time.

Here's a version of the real table: https://www.fsis.usda.gov/Oa/fr/95033f-a.htm?redirecthttp=tr...

(the most current and updated one is at the end of https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/wcm/connect/bf3f01a1-a0b7-4902...)

So sous vide of these steaks at 140 for 2 hours would easily be as safe as cooking them to 160.

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