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Comment by fragmede | Hacker News Reader

> Its always been possible to make a small electric commuter car to drive round at 30mph for short distances

Early models of the Nissan leaf weren't too much more than that (though there have been some advances since the invention of electricity). However, golf carts are the modern version of the small electric car - and is street legal in service jurisdictions!

(Okay, technically what's street legal isn't literally a golf cart, and is called a low speed vehicle (LSV) and will only do 25mph, and aren't always electric, but close enough!)

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For short distances you could use a bicycle or scooter instead.

Cars are mostly useful for larger distances, i.e. on highways, where slow vehicles are not allowed.

bicycles / scooters have a limited application though - families with young kids, long trips, older people, people with injuries, its raining, are just some of the groups / times these are excluded. Cars still are superior general purpose solution for travel.

You'd be surprised how much a simple bicycle or scooter cab can accomplish in solving this objection. These are very popular in Asia.

The main limit is carrying capacity - maximum power - and you really do not need that much stuff. This works long range too, and could work even longer range should there be proper cargo trains for bikes. But there aren't.

The trip time is typically needed to be less than 10h or you need alternative driver or a long break anyway. A car can go let's say 1000 km on average in that time. A plane maybe 5kkm and a train matches a car. A human powered bicycle goes perhaps 250-300 km. Man on foot goes 40 km.

In a city a car is on average 30% faster than a bike and even less vs a scooter or motorbike.

Except in the bigger mode of transport there is space to put in amenities and a spare driver or secondary crew.

That's a good point, I suppose the problem with many cities is they are designed for cars, not for more people centric solutions. I'd like to see a city designed for smaller vehicles bikes / scooters / small EV's, its difficult to get rid of cars once they're there though.

They are popular in Asia because relatively speaking Asia is poor.

Just like the flying pigeon bike was massively popular in china back in the 70's, I even saw one being ridden at Cranfield university by a Chinese masters/doctoral student in the late 70's early eighties.

No, Japan is one of the richer countries on the planet per-capita, and bicycles are very popular there. They're popular because they're cheap and simple and they have excellent public transit for longer distances and they don't have to worry much about thieves like in crappier countries. And as a result of people biking and walking more, almost no one there is fat, unlike America where the majority of the population is obese (not just overweight).

Um I think they meant asia ex Japan as did I

They are popular in the Netherlands also.

The overall point was that bikes can be made to work, Asia is a large scale example, although as you say, not necessarily by choice. The Netherlands, and increasingly other parts of north west Europe are another example.

I think you mean Bikes (ridden by middle class white people) not Scoters and Mopeds ;-)

In India you can see entire families, Dad, Mum and Baby on Mums back riding a moped.

Flying pigeons are bicycles.

I'm not a biologist but I believe non white, non middle class people are capable of riding bikes... Even women! :P

I've been to Japan, and I saw lots of people riding bicycles there. However, they were all relatively fit. Disabled people don't ride bicycles, nor do elderly people. And almost no one rides a bicycle in a downpour. Of course, in a city like Tokyo, if the weather is bad, people can just walk their bike, or take the subway, because things are relatively close together and the public transit infrastructure is excellent. It also helps that they can just leave their bike parked somewhere if they need to, and not worry about it being stolen, unlike America where you can't leave a decent bike in a city like DC for long without someone stealing it unless you have it U-locked to a post (no one locks bikes to solid objects in Japan; they just have simple locks on the back wheel so no one can easily ride away on it).

In many cities bikes are faster than cars. In central London for example average speeds are around eight miles per hour (and falling). During rushhour it's even worse. Rushhour traffic in Berlin averages around five miles per hour. Even untrained cyclists are faster than that.

But would you like to be in rush hour traffic on a bike?

I am every day. It's much nicer than being in lighter traffic, since the cars are slower than me and thus much less dangerous.

In many ways, it's actually better cycling in dense urban traffic moving at a snail's pace than say, a 5 lane road (2 in each direction, shared center turn) of the sort that are arterials in suburbs or might find near your local mall when traffic is moving at 35mph.

Source: I've put about 14,000 miles on a bicycle, half touring, half commuting in Cleveland and Boston. for context, that'll seem absurdly large to non-cyclists, and quite small to serious cyclists.

You end up going faster than the cars trapped in the gridlock because you can filter to the front of the intersection easily on a bike.

Young kids: Cargo bike. Long trips: Car or public transit is better for most people. Older people: Tricycle/electrical assist bike People with injuries: Tricycle, recumbent bike, hand pedals, electric assist etc Rain: rain coat.

You're seriously out of reality. I'm writing this from a subway car where at least 30 people out of the ~50 here would not be able to do anything you suggested since they have trouble with simple slow walking and even stepping into the bus is problem. Rain coat? Some elder people could downright die from a cold. And it's not just rain, it snows here and for several months it's around 0 degrees Celsius and the road is covered in ice.

And even if not, what would you gain with these weird single purpose vehicles that can't be used while remaining in comfort and need to be replaced every winter over a multi-purpose super-comfortable shared microcar? It's not even economical or ecological, ordinary bikes/scooters + microcars + public transport is the ecological/economical solution.

I would guess that in a society where everyone cycles, those that would usually be unable to cycle would gain the most from the exercise etc. I believe cycling in your 70s and 80s is relatively common in the Netherlands.

Isn't a wheelchair a weird single purpose vehicle, isn't a bike, or a car? There's nothing inherently wrong with being weird or single purpose, as long as it gets used.

'Around' 0c isn't that cold, gritting the road and putting on a coat would sort that. You're right there is weather that isn't great for cycling, just as there's terrain that isn't great for it either. I'm sure any global scale transportation solution is going to have its problems, no ones suggesting a one size fits all solution.

>bicycles / scooters have a limited application though - families with young kids

In Japan, bicycles routinely have child seats, and frequently two child seats (front and back).

Cars are also useful in colder / rainy weather...

Where I live, people tend to ride motorbikes on a weather permitting basis. Which means the bulk of days are in late May, June, July, August, and early September. Assuming they can afford to have a second vehicle.

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