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Comment by giis | Hacker News Reader

Before some western-media starts their well known statement like "India is a poor country and they need to focus on their healthcare, education etc before wasting money on Space projects like this".

They need to examine themselves, "Have we ever said above statement when our country lobbying for multi-million/billion dollar defence deals from India?"

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http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/08/why-explore-space.html?...

Reminds me of this letter, from Dr. Ernst Stuhlinger to a nun with similar question.

You could just adopt that statement to our western problems. "We should focus on depression, loneliness and providing for veterans before wasting money on space projects like this".

I like to think:

"We should focus on depression, loneliness and providing for veterans while also investing money on space projects like this".

I also think that's the right approach.

I think you could argue we need to focus on our healthcare and education as well

GPS was developed by the military for missiles and jets, operated by the Air Force, although the time reference is provided by the US Naval Observatory (as I recall).

The intensely visceral nature of defense tends to motivate some exceptionally creative thinking. Primary research may have been done a long time ago, but early applications are often first recognized and funded by the DoD.

The Hubble is essentially a Keyhole satellite turned 180 degrees.

A non-trivial number of the US weather satellites are in place to secure US ships and aircraft ahead of significant weather events. E.g. the DMSP is operated by the Air Force (1).

The DoD has a $70B research budget and spends over $1B annually on medical research alone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Meteorological_Satelli...

I don't understand why are you replying to a dot? Or OP edited the comment?

op edited.

I realized my comment was factually wrong but HN doesn't allow deleting, only editing.

I thought editing was impossible on HN once someone has replied. Seems it is Karma dependent.

Nope just a window of time

> Before some western-media starts their well known statement like

This is a straw man. Nobody is saying this except people in India. At least not to any greater frequency than Western space programs are questioned domestically.

You're kidding, right? Here's a sample back from Nov-13 when India launched the Mars orbiter:

This is The Guardian saying: "Such expenditure is, however, controversial, with some questioning whether India, where more than 40% of children are malnourished and half the population have no toilets, can afford the mission."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/04/india-mars-pro...

Here's the Financial Times saying "India’s Mars ‘fantasy’ defies earthly woes":

https://www.ft.com/content/235c487a-dd52-11e1-8fdc-00144feab...

Here's another from a publication I hadn't really heard of:

https://guardianlv.com/2013/11/india-mars-mission-to-launch-...

Here's The Economist hiding it under a thin veneer of appearing to justify the expenditure: "Some launches may be mere vanity projects, but satellites can have real benefits too"

https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2013/11/04/...

Here CNN doesn't use "poverty" but calls it an "escalation in Asia's space race"

https://edition.cnn.com/2013/11/04/world/asia/india-mars-spa...

But it isn't just the western media. It's actually just the left, everywhere. Even in India. Like this:

https://zeenews.india.com/news/space/amidst-euphoria-some-vo...

The UK cancelled their space programme immediately after achieving orbit. Seems reasonable to have a view on how other nations are approaching it. Particularly when it's a nation we give hundreds of millions in development aid to.

I skimmed the first link you post - it seems quite balanced, despite your quote, and quotes those who are in favour of it too.

> It's actually just the left, everywhere

The FT is "the left"? That's a first.

People seem to ignore the benefits of national goals like the space race. Look at the surge in Physics PhD’s during the Apollo program:

https://www.aps.org/careers/statistics/upload/trends-phd0214...

“I want to grow up and work for NASA, be an astronaut, etc” can give people the desire to work harder on their education. There’s a halo effect.

Not to mention that when you have your own satellites then it helps in a lot of things as opposed to relying on other's satellites

I have no problem with India doing whatever it wants and prioritising certain things above others. I do object to my taxes funding foreign aid to a country that have a well developed nuke program, a big military and a burgeoning space industry. Good for them but not with my money thanks.

Don't fret. Foreign aid to India is rapidly declining. In fact, for the past 3 years India has been a net donor of aid than a receiver[1].

Total US Aid to India is also rapidly declining on a year-on-year basis. $180M in 2016, $102M in 2017, $85M in 2018, $30M (so far) in 2019.[2]

[1] http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2017/mar/22/emerging-...

[2] https://explorer.usaid.gov/cd/IND?fiscal_year=2019&measure=O...

True, but aids are used to project soft power and also to get lucrative defense deals with India and which USA did get billions so that tone really is unwarranted

I don't live in the US.

If a poor country spends all its money feeding its citizens chances are it will stay poor.

If they invest in the future chances are there will be better jobs in the future and less hungry people.

Yeah I don't see what that has to do with my comment. I don't want my taxes sent to subsidise their space industry, nuke program or military. Not a big ask really.

This discussion is about India. Why are you bringing in Israel?

I see what you did there. But I don't live in the US, if I did I would feel the same about that funding.

> I do object to my taxes funding foreign aid to a country that have a well developed nuke program, a big military and a burgeoning space industry

Talk to your elected representatives about that.

Where is the foreign aid given to India to develop its space industry? Never heard of it before.

Obviously, we have many problems.

Solving one problem after other doesn't work in real-life. Things should be handled simultaneously.

Coming to defense,

If you look through the Indian history, It is one of the most exploited country for several different reasons.

Considering our huge population, we are in short of defense equipment from very long time, until many years we don't have money to buy.

Different branches of defense were requesting government for equipment from so many years. Now NDA government is buying.

If whole world is one country, obviously it would have been a much better place to live, but what we have is what we have.

We have disputes with Pakistan, China.

China is extending their defense around Indian borders.

In-case China attacks India, then we should be sustainable enough to at-least defend the attack.

Edit: India uses ~2.4% of GDP, which is similar to many other countries.

Caring for the defense of your country is a top priority, above even education. Placing a flag on the moon is a much lower priority. If they only have enough money for some of those things, then caring for the defense and health care should be done before spending money on a symbolic flag planting

I disagree, a moon landing would be a signal to Indians and the rest of the world that India can compete on the highest technical level.

I think it would go a long way towards abolishing the notion that the Indian tech community is a budget option lacking in quality.

I wish them the best of luck and look forward to seeing the results.

Actually, the Indian Moon Mission is more than just a moon landing. It'll be the first time that any vehicle lands on the south polar region of the Moon. Find out more here on the scientific objectives for the mission - https://www.isro.gov.in/chandrayaan2-mission

I've been reading up on it more since commenting. I'm really impressed by the ambitiousness of the project.

I am excited to hear that they plan on sending people soon.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Human_Spaceflight_Pro...

Chinese have already landed on far side of the moon with their Chang'e 4 [0] mission.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang%27e_4

That is not the south polar region though.

I don't see landing on the moon in 2019 as quite the same technological feat that it was in 1969, so I doubt that it will abolish any notions about the Indian tech community. If anything, it establishes the notion that India is willing to spend exorbitant amounts of money to increase national pride.

> I don't see landing on the moon

Good thing only a handful of people care about what you see then...

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

It would have been, if ISRO had hit their own projected timelines. They have been mucking it up for quite a while.

That said I'll be rooting for them.

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