Why the hell are so many people choosing non-public and out of state schools? Do people really think that double the cost gets you double the returns?
More people choosing state schools won't make the mean or median degree cheaper, it will just make state schools more expensive with lower admittance rates.
People do not know how to evaluate the quality of education. The 'real' quality of the education also doesn't matter because it is not actual ability that governs success but ability to play well the game that has arisen from elementary school through new-grad hires.
If you take out the mechanics of the game which are arbitrary you get an economy where there are far more people who are able to be educated and who have been educated for any particular field than there are jobs and success becomes a lottery. (Success is already a lottery hidden behind the game mechanics)
This is expressed in The Case Against Education, which strengthens it's argument by convincing the reader that university is really only useful as a finishing school.
Are there any more extensive writings on the game mechanics of education and successfully joining the workforce?
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/220690/cubed-by-nik...
Every one of the (ex-)overseas(ish) graduates that I know from these countries' universities have had nothing but praise and thanks for the opportunity, have loyalty, promote in their home countries, and live (and earn, and pay tax) there for several years, and if returning home will gladly return / switch between countries.
If any high schoolers reading this thread have not considered this option, take a chance to take a look.
"Just do x" doesn't help when the game is rigged from the start.
I'm doing everything right:
1. Work during school (on campus & industry) 2. Getting good grades 3. Applying for FAFS 4. In state 5. Engineering progression (IT) 6. Not dorming (except first year because of family situation) 7. No meal plan
I'm levereged over $100k in this degree. Hoping to finish soon. I know my situation is nonstandard but this misinformation is just polluting the dialogue on this topic and it's something that really hurts people like me.
Get it paid off as quickly as you can (sure, you know this). Best wishes.
"Just stay in state and go to a public school... also don't be insanely, one-in-a-million unlucky." <- does that feel better to you?
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The conventional wisdom used to be correct. You used to be able to avoid massive debt by staying in state and attending a public college. This is not the case anymore. I know plenty of people who aren't in as bad of a situation as I am and received similarly low financial support from the government and the university I attend.
Focusing the conversation on "what to do" is not helpful. Focusing on "why do you have to" is helpful.
Why do you have to pay ~30k/year, minimum, to live on campus with the most basic meal plan at a state run college?
The out of state tuition for my college (NJIT) was $6,214 [0] in 1998, the year after I was born. This year the out of state tuition is $32,750. This does not count living expenses or textbooks. The college also mandates you have a laptop with some hardware requirements. Using chronicle's "Adjust for Inflation" tool it seems that my college's tuition grew at a rate of >300% above inflation.
I'm not going to make any comments here as to why I think this is, though I do have opinions, but I will state that "just stay in state" ignores this. This is a trend common to most public colleges. If this trend continues for NJIT (of add ~$1k/year to the tuition for in and out of state) in 18 years, when the next gravypod comes around, they'll be even more screwed.
[0] - https://www.chronicle.com/interactives/tuition-and-fees
Yes it is. Full stop. Local community colleges are vastly cheaper than many universities, and the credits match up 1:1. Working full time, getting an AS, transferring to a university to earn a BS is still a very viable path.
Following this path it's not only possible, but expected that one walks away completely debt free with their BS at the end of four years.
Just because you didn't do the right things (or even if you did and still got very unlucky) doesn't mean the rest of us can't have a fruitful conversation about how things will work out for the vast majority of people.
You need to understand this, or you'll forever be trapped making terrible coding analogies on the Internet, not being understood. Literally none of the numbers or situations you cited are relevant to this conversation.
1. In high school I took as many AP courses as I could possibly take and realistically pass. I ended up passing 6 of these exams. These exams cost $80 and get you the equivalent of "one course" worth 3 credits. My US history exam gave me 6 credits for 2 full courses! So in total I got 21 units. In effect, I paid $480 to complete 17.5% of my college education!
2. After graduation, I did not go directly into college. Instead, I skipped one semester and then used CLEP exams to knock out an additional 5 exams. These are exactly the same as AP exams but you basically self-study for the subject. The subjects you study are basically general education subjects like sociology or psychology. I got an additional 15 units from these exams for a total cost of about $500. At this point. I have completed 30% of college education for a cost of $980.
3. I apply to a community college and am subsequently accepted. All of my AP + CLEP exam credits are accepted. I then complete another 24 units at the community for a total cost of about $2,400. I don't fully recall what the cost was but this was on the high end estimate. At this point, I am basically 50% done with my college for a total cost of $3,380.
4. I apply to a state university which I am accepted to and then complete the last 60 units for my BA degree. I don't recall fully what the cost is completely but I would estimate it to be about $3,000 per semester. So estimated total cost for my BA degree was $15,380.
These numbers are just for the tuition and books. I lived at home the entire time, commuting to school. I also was working full time the entire time and paid cash for everything. Never had any student loans. When I graduated it took me about 4 months to find a job paying 52k per year. Major was accounting and I live in Southern California.
Most important thing is to make sure to use the resources that are available to you. AP and CLEP are EXTREMELY value resources to you. It just boggles my mind when I talk to people who complain about their student loans then I ask them if they took AP or CLEP exams. Some of them say they never even heard of these programs....are you kidding me?
The difference between my life there and my life when I said fuck this place and moved somewhere cool, outdoorsy, and away from all the baggage is night and day.
I grew up in Southern California, and I don't know anyone that stayed there that is "thriving". All have college degrees, still living with parents, not making enough money for me to even consider them "living".
I would say it's a very wise decision to try and move to somewhere with a booming economy as soon as possible.
I think I can tell from context, but, just to be clear, is the 'this' you did "(1) Go to a public school, and (2) Stay in-state", or "choosing non-public and out of state schools"?