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Comment by cwp | Hacker News Reader

I had a bout of this about 20 years ago, so I made a rule for myself: I wasn't allowed to decline an invitation. If somebody proposed doing something together and I was able, I had to do it. That made a huge difference in my life. I did a lot of things that were... unexpected. (A few examples: I joined an ultimate frisbee league. I went skydiving. I joined a church group. I went to a strip club. I attended a wedding.) It wasn't all fun or even pleasant, but I wasn't lonely anymore.

The internet was just getting started then, so that experiment might work out differently now, but it's worth considering how much of our modern isolation is just a matter of choices.

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I have a similar rule with my wife, that she doesn't know about.

If she wants to do something with me, then I say yes, as long as I don't have a prior commitment, or, you know, am not sick or physically unable. I started this rule with her from the moment we met. I think it is part of why we stayed together all these years, and why we worked out well when so many of my previous relationships didn't.

I love a lot of solitary activities, like reading, writing, single-player games, drawing and painting, learning new things, working on projects that she isn't interested in, etc. Without my self-imposed rule, I would likely decline to do a lot of other activities, especially outside my own interests.

But if she wants to do something or go somewhere or just sit and talk, then I say yes.

My kids are young enough that I don't quite have the same rule with them, and partly because they just want me to do stuff with them and be with them literally all the time, so we are still in boundary-setting phase, but I assume that I will eventually adopt the "as you wish" rule with them as well.

This is a vital rule for partner relationships. I learned it from theater "yes, and" exercises. Really important to do for kids too. Good luck!

I think this is great advice. I'm not particularly lonely, being married and having two kids, but sometimes my wife and I don't do enough together. We instituted a regular babysitter night every two weeks, and we are required to find something and go out that evening.

But only passively saying yes to everything is not enough. I need to take action and organise something to do with her. And also take initiative to organise things with other friends. Sadly, those friends don't seem to follow this "as you wish" rule.

Great advice and in regards to kids I ended up sitting on the floor with our 18 month old today for over an hour, just blowing bubbles. Watching him learn to blow the bubbles himself and seeing the joy on his face was pretty special.

>the "as you wish" rule

Beautiful.

> the "as you wish" rule

That's not what it's about. It's about doing things. Together. Marriage isn't just about signing your names on a piece of paper; it's a (supposedly) life-long commitment to a team of two people where you are one of the team members. My wife and I do the same thing (and yes, it goes both ways), and we both agree that's the one reason we're such an awesome team.

I don't think "as you wish" is meant to be in resignation but as a wholly committed and happy gesture of love. I'm assuming it's in reference to The Princess Bride, where the character Westley says it as an expression of love for a girl who first takes it as wry compliance.

Fair enough. I can't say I've seen that movie. :)

My last girlfriend was largely the opposite, especially after the relationship had aged some and she seemed to assume we'd be staying together. She was very independent, and didn't really like doing a lot of things I wanted to do, and kept her own friends separate from me and did things with them on the weekend if I was doing something she didn't want to bother with (such as packing up to move in with her).

I ended up backing out of moving in with her because I didn't feel very close to her and that we didn't do enough together. Shortly after, she dumped me by text and ghosted me.

This guy took that idea to the extreme: built an app to randomly join random Facebook events and forced himself to go wherever it took him.

https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/06/08/53...

Considering how Facebook is a haven for right-wing extremists, that sounds like a bad idea.

Interesting link, thanks for posting it

I started something similar about 12 years ago...inspired by the movie “Yes man” I started saying yes to every opportunity that I came across.

Wanna have lunch together? Yes!

Wanna go out with us tonight? Yes!

Wanna help me move? Yes!

It really got me out of my shell and made me realize that the reason I was alone is because I was an asshole. People had been trying to include me all my life, but I had always declined :(

I am much better these days :)

For me it's more the opposite, in the last 2-3 years I said no for the first time in 15-20 years because I was more in the mood to do something on my own or just chill and do nothing.

I'm just saying this because in retrospect I think I've never been lonely because I was going out and meeting people at every opportunity that came up and I could never understand people who said "I'd rather stay at home today.". But because I've not got dozens of friends this was still a manageable level and I'd still often would've gone out more.

HA! Same w/ me, a "silly" movie actually changed my life for the better, thank you for letting me know at least another person got the same out of it.

"Wanna help me move?" is my favorite. Nothing like getting a free workout with a friend or family. You might even get a dinner out of it too.

> "Wanna help me move?" is my favorite. Nothing like getting a free workout with a friend or family. You might even get a dinner out of it too.

Oh cool, nothing like giving up an entire day for the possibility of a permanent back injury or accidentally damaging someone's furniture all because they're too cheap to drop a few hundred dollars on some professional movers.

>I had a bout of this about 20 years ago, so I made a rule for myself: I wasn't allowed to decline an invitation.

That approach works great as long as you are currently getting invited to things. If it's been a year since the last time you were invited to anything, that's not going to solve your loneliness problem.

This is true, but trivial. If nobody ever asks you to spend time with them, you are doing something extraordinary to prevent it: never leaving your house, violent aggression, being drunk all the time, etc. You should definitely deal with that situation first.

But if you have normal interactions with people on a regular basis, you'll get invitations. They might be tiny or tentative or impersonal, but if engage with questions like "Can I talk to you for a second?" or "Would you like a sample of our new Teriyaki Chicken?" or even "Do you have the time?" you'll gradually open yourself up to more possibilities.

I absolutely disagree. Just taking the workplace as an example, I've been at companies where I would hang out with at least one coworker per week and there were companies where I did nothing at all with coworkers outside office hours except maybe the christmas party.

And I do think if you're not in any club (for sports or hobbies or whatever) it gets harder and harder to make friends the older you get (spoken like a true mid-30s person ;). I don't have kids or a dog, so the workplace is next to the best venue to meet new people.

TLDR: I don't think it's in any way rare or weird to not receive invitations if you don't already have a network of friends. This is a catch-22.

Unless you're in solitary confinement, people will invite you to connect with them. It may not take the form of "Hey, let's have a beer after work." It might not be directed specifically at you. But the opportunities are there.

I'm not saying "you must do this, it is the only way." It worked for me at a specific place and time in my life, and that isn't a universal condition. But I don't think we are helpless. Modern urban life may be alienating, but it's not inescapable. If you find that you value human connection more than likes or RSUs or Game of Thrones, you can find a way to have more of it.

So join a club. Clubs are great places to meet people. Find one appropriate for a hobby you have, or explore a new hobby.

Learn a new skill and meet people.

Personally I've no problem right now, but I vehemently disagree with the gp posting that it is per se the person's fault for not being invited.

Don't look at it in terms of fault, see it as ways to create opportunities.

Volunteer! I meet the best people volunteering. People who will do stuff for non-monetary reasons are usually pretty great.

Thanks, I was just about to comment something along those lines. It is relatively easy to get back into society if all you need to do is stop declining offers. It is a completely different game if offers happen very rarely. In my case, I've got yet another challenge: I have a disability. And people tend to treat you like sfrm another star. It is really quite a challenge to stay connected if society treats you like an outcast.

Do you still follow this "never no" rule, or did you come to a point or change in your life to ease up or ease off?

I think it lasted about 6 months before I completely abandoned it, but I had started to cheat even before then. The main reason I quit was "mission accomplished". I had made new friends, discovered some social activities I enjoyed and was generally happier. But also I noticed some downsides.

One was that people will exploit that rule, even if they don't know about it. That church group would have cheerfully turned me into one of their most dedicated and active members just by inviting me to all the things. They meant well, but I was sending mixed signals by accepting all their invitations even though I wasn't interested in their faith. Once I had been to a few events I had to start saying no.

Another was that once I had a bit of a social life going, I didn't want to let happenstance push me around so much. The choice was no longer between do this thing or stay home and mope; I started to have other options and I didn't want to just end up doing the first thing that presented itself.

All in all, it was a great way to change my habits, but not a good way to live life indefinitely.

I was going to specifically ask how the "joined a church group" went because that seemed to be the example that had the most potential for being a slippery slope to a more complete change of life than you may have been looking for.

I have a family member that pretty much went all-in on came-to-it-later-in-life religion. It really felt like their susceptibility to loneliness was successfully exploited.

That sounds like a great plot for a movie.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1068680/

I thought the link was headed to Fight Club... :)

There is a great always sunny in Philadelphia episode about that

I've made the exact same rule, as well. I've spent more money because of it, but my life has been much better. Sometimes, a trade-off is necessary. It also makes life much more interesting, and it's really made me grow as a person.

Wow, thank you for your advise! This might be interesting to try...

As much as I'd like to follow the rule, I think I have an actual, varied social life now, and this would be... Risky.

I've been invited to a violent sounding orgy of the many male, one female kind (always been a dream of the girl's, but I do have someone I'm seeing). In the last few months, also been invited to an open Satanic book reading sessions. Beginner friendly, I had been told.

It doesn't seem unreasonable to put a limit of "as long as it doesn't violate my ethics/morals or any criminal statutes."

"Hey, I need to dispose of [toxic waste¦a body¦evidence], can you help out?" "Sorry, have to wash my hair."

The second one does not really violate moral or ethical codes, IMO? The first one I know some people might be able to justify, but I brought it up with my girlfriend jokingly, she said I was a dead man if I even thought about it, and that was that :)

It just becomes a slippery slope though, because rules like this are meant to push you towards doing things you don't really want to. Once you start making exceptions, you will find reasons to say no to everything.

Like, I made myself a rule to not buy anything on the first day I see it. All well and good, but yesterday I bought a guitar for about $1500. I had technically seen it in the store before, but this was a different one of the same model, with a much nicer finish, and felt better to play.

Seems like an innocuous exception, but internally I know that I'm going to start impulse spending again. At least now I can (better) afford random bouts of stupidity!

I didn't get into anything that extreme, but I did do some things that made me uncomfortable. That was sort of the point. I stopped when it didn't seem to be serving me well anymore.

Hah, made me remember an activity I did in my youth - male dancer for bachelorette parties. Sure met lots of people doing that!

"Smoke crack with me bro"

Not here, please.

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