Comment by mikekchar | Hacker News Reader

Comment by mikekchar | Hacker News Reader

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Because Japan Times says, "Oh, it's been days since we published an article on hikihomori" and publish another one. People who read Japan Times, then post it all over the place (not just HN). It gets voted up on HN for 2 reasons I think. First, there are a lot of people who use social media (like HN) as a crutch for dealing with their own mental health issues. Because they spend a lot of time trying to learn how to become healthy, they are interested in a lot of things like this (and it's not just hikikomori -- it's depression, and schizophrenia, etc, etc). Just look at all posts about various drugs and diet relating to mental health on HN.

The other reason is because some people like to bash Japan (and increasingly Korea it seems to me). I don't really like the word "racist" here because it really doesn't fit, I think. It's more culturist. Some people really hate the culture and think it's wrong, so they promote stories that show it in a bad light. I would say equally prevalent are people who unduly love the culture and promote stories that show it in a good light. There are tons of overly optimistic stories about Japan on HN.

Japan Times makes money from this second category (people who unduly hate Japanese culture and people who unduly love Japanese culture) and so post a ridiculous amount of trashy articles about these kinds of things. If you really want to understand Japanese culture well, I would advise avoiding it as much as possible. They are only in it to whip up emotion as far as I can tell.

> Some people really hate the culture and think it's wrong, so they promote stories that show it in a bad light.

I posted this story. I certainly don't hate my own home or culture. Rather I think one must have lived a very sheltered life in Japan not to have been affected by the hikikomori issue, by alcoholism, or both, which I'd argue are the two biggest problems today in Japanese society, bar none.

Japan Times criticism is valid, somewhat. It's certainly not top notch journalism, very few articles are these days. But I can't quite go and post a study of hikikomori in Japanese.

Not a single person I know in Japan has had no contact with, or not suffered themselves directly these issues. Any public conversation about them is good and necessary.

I never meant to imply that hikikomori was not an important issue. However, the questions was, why do articles on hikikomori show up on HN so frequently. HN is a forum about high tech, and startups, mostly centred around Silicon Valley. How does hikikomori relate? Why are we discussing the problems of Japan -- unrelated to high tech, unrelated to startups, unrelated to Silicon Valley -- on HN? Sure, you can imagine that it would show up once or twice, but the frequency it shows up is beyond what you would expect.

Why do you think people on HN want to talk about this phenomenon?

There is a lot of talk about mental issues in HN. Sometimes from a societal point of view, sometimes medical, etc. So it's part of that interest for people here, I suppose. There's a lot of talk about health, and nutrition too. HN is definitely not what I thought it was either.

Personally, I know a significant number of people ( not just in Japan ) who work from home, glued to a keyboard.

I do too on occasion -- as I assume is the case for many people on HN. But I must travel more than I like for work as well.

At any rate, these people always looking at a screen, they don't think of themselves as hikikomori. And mostly aren't, in fact they may have an uncle, or a son, or a niece, or next door neighbour, who really is, and makes life very, very difficult for people related to them, or living with them. So, not hikikomori, yet these work-from-home types can have close to zero interaction with the outside world other than a couple of holiday trips per year, and the occasional shopping weekend with wife / husband / partner.

I think some of them wake up one day and think they're going to end up like their neighbour. Others want to know how to get their son out of the room.

The thing is, hardly anyone talks in person to anyone else about it in so-called real life.

Maybe many in our line of work can be in situations that relate to the problem. Isolation in the age of hyperconnectivity is ironically very real.

I have a good friend who is hikikomori. I actually met him on the internet before I moved to Japan. I've never met him in person, despite trying many times to set it up. Hikikomori, in my experience, is very different than the isolation of working from home (something I also experience). It's obviously not a single medical condition. It's a result of dealing with some mental illness, but rather than living on the street or being institutionalised, you live at home because your family cares for you. It is uncommon in most places in the world because you simply can't live in your bedroom without leaving. In Japan it is possible. That's why it exists only in Japan and a few similar cultures.

I'm all for talking about the feeling of isolation and the frustration of working a long time without much social contact (story of my current life). However, I would not conflate that with hikikomori which is a much more serious social issue of how to deal with mental illness.

I am not conflating. I was answering why I think it may be of interest for HN readers.

Also, there are many types of hikikomori. Some have no family support or live with them.

I know one who lives in an internet cafe, alone, and has for years. The staff told me she avoids everyone as if they were toxic poison. Only comes out at night for bathroom trips / snacks and she will run back into the cubicle if anyone's in the hall when she comes out. It's been three years now. In a cubicle. Leaves the payments near the drink section in an envelope always at the same time of night. Doesn't even use the cubicle computer, she works out of her smartphone. ( Our company actually hired her for a while. ) Most employees do not even know what she looks like, I certainly don't. She's adamant that she wants to live like this.

The son of a friend has been in his room for the last ten years. Does nothing all day. Tried to kill himself several times. Their life is an absolute nightmare.

Etc. There's no one-size-fits-all, and in some cases I don't know if mental illness has anything to do with it.

Edit : Our next door neighbour, as far as I know, has not been out of his one room apartment in at least 8 years. He's old ( 80s ? ) and a couple of volunteers check on him once a week and bring him food, otherwise he'd be dead already. We tried to talk to him once and were told not to do so as he could turn violent, "he's a hikikomori"... It took a while to find volunteers to help him out that he would not attack, apparently. I mean, the list is awfully long. I could go on and on.

I don't know a huge amount about hikikomori other than what I've read here and in other media pieces about the topic. Plenty of those have pointed out that the phenomenon has been seen, and is becoming more common throughout the Western world. Just not attracting quite the same attention or a catchy name.

So I don't see it as Japan bashing just that it's more widely known and talked about in Japan. Not much different to early discussions of ADHD coming from the US. The Western cliche of an uber-nerd stuck in their parent's basement or their bedroom, but surrounded by technology seems to me the more offensive description of a similar result - yet not seen as US or UK bashing.

As for a specific HN angle, it seems reasonable to suppose that a phenomenon that has grown alongside technological growth, in a nation that for many years was at the forefront of that growth may be connected. In the same way my kids and friends are incredibly wary of making a simple phone call - almost taking any and every option in preference. Perhaps this is part of the "cost" of technology.

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