Comment by AstralStorm | Hacker News Reader

Comment by AstralStorm | Hacker News Reader

People in quite a few countries I've been to are more and more reluctant to try and form a relationship with a stranger, especially one who does not seem outgoing. No idea about the root cause of this general mistrust.

It's also easier to have substitute "network" relationships which are not complete.

Abd it shows we're geared towards living in relatively small communities whee everyone knows everyone, but new forced mobility breaks that, and so do long work hours. (I believe the optimum size is somewhere around 10k and average 30h workweek, more bursty.)

My personal solution to what almost happened to me was to fix the underlying problem with medication and start building from ground up. It took two lost years of my life (funny enough, during studies) and it's always a risk of relapse...

The solution is unfortunately to get really creative in finding actual humanity around. It's rare but happens.

It is actually quite hard for an adult to find an actual connection who isn't a spouse nowadays. You get to dig into weird social spaces like clubs (some are really niche too) and there are few guarantees. It's also for some reason harder for men because women still tend to build minimum social groups as a reflex ("coffee clatches" or rumour Mills)

A lot of it is extremely superficial too which can be annoying.

I guess that's true if you consider churches weird. Some are weird. Most are full of fairly normal people. Other than the desire to focus on growing as people. And, depending on your area, the theism.

But all the other desires and concerns you list are met by millions of people by going to church. And participating! Just like university, it's possible to go while essentially being disconnected from everyone.

And if the concern is the weirdness, most churches would be more than happy to let folks join in on activities and charitable work with no theological or financial commitments. I've never seen religious tests in churches other than to be a teacher of religion, which makes sense.

As someone who was raised in a pretty religious household, I have to say that churches can, indeed, be pretty weird. Churches are like clubs. Whole lot of different clubs out there, but you really do need to be careful that you don't end up in one that's, well, let's just use the word, "unhealthy". There's a lot of "unhealthy"-ness out there in the religious community today.

Sure, but there's a lot of unhealthy-ness other places as well.

If you're not seeing a lot of peace, patience, kindness, or self-control, stay away.

But this comment, and its siblings, need to be careful about painting with too broad a brush. Religious communities are diverse. Again, there are billions of folks that are into church or weekly worship of some sort... there are too many of them for the entire category of activity to be inherently weird.

I have a bad opinion of churches as my abusive father was quite a fan of them, and would in fact diagnose my siblings as I as possessed by demons and use this as an excuse to slap the shit out of us, torment us until we cried, etc. None of his church friends gave a damn or lifted a finger to help us.

Wow. Sorry. That sort of thing angers me.

I won't presume to give you advice here, but for the other people reading, there are many churches who do work in this space, supporting shelters for victims of violent crimes, recovery groups, addiction recovery programs (substance abuse is often involved in domestic abuse), support groups for divorced people, fostering, adoption, and so on. There are places for one to do some good in this particular space.

Starting with the caveat of “not all churches”, but it is a very common trend.

Churches have a weird entry criteria - you have to believe in their god (which can be offensive when it’s phrased like “you are incapable of handling your own life, leave it to God”). And if you don’t, you’re silently and persistently pressured into making that conversion, with a healthy dose of pity for you and your sinful ways.

I've never been to a church that required people to believe anything in order to engage in any particular way. Except to become a teacher or minister or priest, but that's fairly common sense I think.

But, yes, people will often discuss theology and proselytize. If that sort of thing angers you, maybe skip out after the music and then catch up with folks when the coffee or potluck starts. Or maybe skip all of the above and just sign up for the volunteer activities at retirement homes, women's shelters, etc.

> I've never been to a church that required people to believe anything in order to engage in any particular way.

Communion at the Catholic Church. Or entering the Mormon church at all.

You're probably thinking of entering a Mormon Temple. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints distinguishes between churches where people meet every Sunday, and Temples where more important ceremonies are conducted (and which, incidentally, aren't open on Sunday).

Yeah, technically all Christian churches do not allow non-Christians to take communion, though it's on the honor system. However, I don't think an agnostic or atheist would miss a cracker and shot of juice.

I guess maybe wedding might be a niche concern. Some churches only marry believers or even members, but I bet most would consider it anyway. Only some sort of premarital class or counseling is typically required.

There are plenty of churches where you really don't have to believe in God or even feel pressured to. Particularly left leaning mainstream denominations like Episcopal or PCUSA seem to be a mix of believers and people who just like the community. Universalist Unitarianism is a little more blatant about that.

Just add to that. Humans have always lived in tribes. Tribes internally were mostly socialistic but between tribes it was free trade. You could say a man few thousand years ago was more certain of his future and less stressed about career then today. You knew your village goes to farm those lands, have neighbours who will feed you when you can't, gather for stories every evening, ... Life was physically hard but otherwise easy and simple

You're romanticizing it. Very few primitive people had it easy. Life was hard and just staying alive was often complex. Especially when an epidemic came through, or your village was caught in the middle of a war.

Everything you've said is equally true of the modern world.

Unevenly, maybe.

But someone in a first world country isn't at serious risk of the next town over coming by and murdering everyone for their possessions. Or having fatal diarrhea.

You just moved goalposts.

In a bad harvest year you were going to starve, in a wartime defeat you were going to be killed or sold into slavery, and in an epidemic you were going to die.

Futures were far from certain with those existential threats on the horizon.

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