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Comment by xpaulbettsx | Hacker News Reader

Disappointed to see "Teh Womenz" on there - is it so inconceivable that someone wanting to be a hacker is a woman? Or not into women?

Obviously the author is tongue-in-cheek, but it's indicative of a wider culture, where hackers are telling women, 'You don't belong.'

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Nah, I think what the author meant is learning pick up skills. That's one thing I'm really disappointed about the HN in general is that people don't necessarily branch outside of computers and break the nice guy-politically correct-nerdy stereotype. Awhile back there was that whole "lifehack" movement, but even that was preaching to the choir about "productivity hacks" and being generally PC. Once, hacking was about infiltration, social engineering, alternative culture and breaking conventions in any field; but now it's being reduced to getting paid and "making a difference" in the world.

I used to think the same thing about people here on HN, but I realized that a lot of accounts are tied to peoples' real names (and professional lives). So there's a filter that keeps people from discussing anything outside of politically-correct, nice-guy stereotypical talking points. But if you went "off-the-record", you'd probably find quite a few men open up about things like PUA techniques.

I realized that a lot of accounts are tied to peoples' real names (and professional lives). So there's a filter that keeps people from discussing anything outside of politically-correct, nice-guy stereotypical talking points

The tied-to-real-name affect has advantages. It prevents the "Greater Internet Fuckwad Effect" (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/): "Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total Fuckwad"

Why say so? You found pua's here? That d be shocking.

PUA meant a lot to me at one time. I was much more of a theorist than anything else, but it really helped me get through some bad times and back into success with women.

how did pua help you through bad times when u were just a theorist? please clarify

I'm not 100% sure why you've been downvoted, I'm guessing it's the grammar. I've voted you up for asking a good question.

Like almost everyone, I had a fairly bad breakup once. I was basically engaged, we would have been except she wanted me to wait 'till after college to ask. Then one day, she left me. For one of my close friends. It was bad. I was real fucked up about it. I had sort of built everything up around our relationship, so it pretty much wrecked most of my plans.

As I tried (and failed) at getting another girlfriend, failure leads to lack of confidence, which makes it harder to attract women, which leads to failure, and the cycle continues. What PUA did for me was make me realize that I had the rules of the game wrong. I was really angry that I was 'doing everything right' and it still wasn't working out, until I realized that it wasn't that I was an unworthy dude, I was just playing by the wrong rules. Of course using the wrong ruleset leads to failure. It wasn't my fault, really, it was that I was being a bit naive. So while I wasn't hardcore following the PUA ruleset, it helped increase my self esteem a great deal, which naturally meant I was better. Eventually, success. Though PUA almost screwed that up, but that's another story...

Although the question is directed at someone else, allow me to interject and add my $0.02. I don't buy all of the PUA neg/evolutionary psychology/detach-attach etc. However, the biggest takeaway I had from PUA is handling social rejections like feedback. PUA taught me that social relations is nothing at all like Disney romance but like playing sports, music and programming. When you miss a shot shooting hoops, or a note in a guitar solo or get a compile error coding, you don't slump your shoulders and go home. You figure out what went wrong, repeat usually 100 times until you get it right. Blind confidence is perhaps the most important skill for PUA and programming. In the latter, you stay up until 2AM, Googling stack-overflow to fix that one illusive bug; in the former, you stay up until 2AM, working set after set going for that one illusive f-close.

There is, however, a better way to convey this. Political correctness != civility.

I thought it was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek - I didn't take "Drinking Heavily" entirely to heart either.

Agreed. I think the author should have just written it as "learn to date". I think learning to date is harder than any programming language and saying it that way leaves it open to the readers sexual preferences.

Disappointed to see "Teh Womenz" on there - is it so inconceivable that someone wanting to be a hacker is a woman? Or not into women?

Agreed. A better wording would be "Don't forget to develop romantic/sexual relationships with other people, don't spend all your time in front of a computer"

You are taking him way, way too seriously. I think anyone with a wife or girlfriend knew what he meant.

HA but you're assuming a hacker woman is /straight/. Mybe I only want lesbians in my culture >:(

Pretty sure you're not helping your case.

Pretty sure I'm not in court :)

Our community is filled with sexists, that's just how it is. The reason there are no women in tech is because we're all misogynistic assholes. Devops community, point in case. Every time I see a programmer or a sysadmin refer to women or their employees as "bitches", I put a note, "Never hire this lawsuit waiting to happen" into my addressbook entry for them.

Repeat after me, correlation does not imply causation. While misogyny is not a cultural value to be perpetuated, it's not quite that simple. There have been serious discussions about the subject recently here on HN, and one thing I've learned that is a big part of the "women in tech" equation is that a large proportion of women find other work more enjoyable and remunerative than tech or engineering.

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