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Comment by FooBarWidget | Hacker News Reader

Huawei seems to see the US bans as a way to bully Huawei, and perhaps a way to bully China as well. Some of the Chinese people I know think that the US wants Chinese to stay poor, that the US is jealous of the Chinese's success. The press release is basically painting the story of the underdog resisting against bullies, and thriving against all odds.

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I definitely think some Americans have exactly that opinion.

There are americans that think the earth is flat. I doubt the median educated american would want a billion+ people to stay poor.

The 'median educated american' [sic] is not quite 'your average American' which is usually the demographic used for such statements.

It's all about 'winning' now I guess and for one to win all others have to lose.

I use median, because thinking of the guy in the middle of the spectrum seems to make more sense than averaging it into an amorphous person. I like math, is all.. I'm not sure what your statement about winning means, are you okay? Negative neuroplasticity is a thing, dont despair. This situation is bullshit, I'm not sure if any superorganism is really winning in the long term. Some individuals maybe.

Edit: I maybe should have used worldly, rather than educated; not quite sure of the precise word I was looking for. I didn't mean college educated.

It's not just median, it's median + educated that's a much thinner slice than Average American.

Yes, indeed. Despite having commented thus far, I feel like debating whether the average american would be sadistic isn't very useful. Absent influence in the government, we (americans) don't have agency in regards to this. Neither do the chinese. I imagine the average in both countries is inundated with propaganda as well.

Jelous? We've lost so many jobs due to free trade. They can call it any thing they want but the trade deficit cannot be explained by jelousy.

That's china's problem how?

Because it's a literal wealth transfer from the American middle class to China. Yes growth has supplied some of that wealth, but America and Europe have done the rest. And no one asked the respective populations of the lower middle class if they wanted to give millions of Chinese a better life at the expense of theirs, it just happened.

If I understand correctly, you're suggesting that the US middle class suffered as a result of trying to help the Chinese?

That would make sense if as a whole the US economy started stagnating because of trade with China but as far as I know the US GDP has still been growing.

Given that the US is still as a whole doing well, I'd argue that the reason the middle/lower class isn't doing well isn't because of China but because of the imbalance in where these profits have gone. In other words, I think it's wealth inequality that is the real issue.

And what exactly caused the wealth inequality? The CEO types closed American factories and moved production to China. This is great for the stock of said company, the CEO, the board of directors, and China. Wait a minute... this really sucks if you are were a worker in the American factory that closed! Hey at least they can buy cheap Chinese stuff at Walmart with their unemployment checks.

> And what exactly caused the wealth inequality?

I never mentioned inequality. The purchasing power (and wage) of the average American and European working has either declined or stagnated. What China has done pulling millions out of poverty is amazing, taking nothing away from that. Lets not pretend those BS 8% growth numbers year after year did that, a lot of that wealth came from the west.

> result of trying to help the Chinese?

No, I said the American and European middle class has suffered while the Chinese lower class has risen. And in a democracy, large policy decisions that affect the economy and your standard of life are voted upon.

No one ever voted for globalization.

> US GDP has still been growing.

Not at a rate high enough to sustain an increase in quality of life. Yes there are other factors, but anything below 4% is a crisis.

A huge portion of the profits China has obtained from becoming America's manufacturing base has gone directly back to America in the form of US bond purchases. This has been the case going back to its inception into the WTO in 2001 [1, ex. 6]. The American economy, and thus its middle class, have directly benefitted from this in the form of greater and cheaper capital liquidity.

In addition, this deficit you speak of (that has been characterized by Trump as "stealing" from America, a laughable notion), actually shrinks to almost nothing when adjusted for US goods sold in China [1, ex.16, 17]. This is comparing four categories of goods and services exchanged between the US and China (1: services sold through subsidiaries, 2: services imports, 3: goods through subsidiaries and 4: goods through trade). This is a much more complete and honest comparison. Trump has for some reason decided to only focus on the last point (goods sold through trade).

The US sells 67B worth of services to China through subsidiaries, 56B of services imports, 213B of goods through subsidiaries and 112B of goods through trade. In other words, adjusted for U.S sales of goods and services in China, the trade deficit actually amounts to a U.S _surplus_ of something in the ballpark 20B a year.

Where is the stealing? Where is the zero-sum "wealth transfer"?

[1] https://www.kkr.com/sites/default/files/KKR_White_Paper_51-1...

And everyday your President brags about the fact that US is back to full employment. So if these jobs were somehow back that you would need an army of Mexicans... Not sure this is the expected result, for Trump supporter.

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